5 ms·

I really hate these kinds of articles, primarily because they are trying to sugar-coat reality here. The fact of the matter is this, management _is_ a promotio

I really hate these kinds of articles, primarily because they are trying to sugar-coat reality here. The fact of the matter is this, management _is_ a promotion, because you get paid more and you gain access to more powers. If it were _not_ a promotion within the company, no one would take it up. Management is a simple deal, you give up power _outside_ of the company for power _within_ the company. It is far easier to join another company as an Engineer than it is as an Engineering Manager. However, I agree that it should not be. It should not be there to create a sense of hierarchy. This is why, I believe that you should rotate your managers _within_ the team. Back at my old company, we had people who would go into a Team Lead position for a certain project, and then someone else would take over. Pay was already high, so no one really wanted to take up lead because it meant more responsibility. This is how power needs to be treated, you should not have it for too long. This is why we have term limits.

coding123 6y ago
I've never seen "team lead" as a management role. Team lead is more of technical tie-breaker role on technical decisions. It's not a management role if you can't fire someone.
- gamesbrainiac 6y ago
  I was a Team Lead, and I could fire someone, but that firing would be handled by HR. Also in Europe, you can't fire people at will like you can in the US, which is a lot more humane.
- gambiting 6y ago
  I am a team lead and I'm definitely a manager - 80% of my time is managing people, not making technical decisions, that's more for technical directors(who in turn do not manage anyone). And why would managers be able to fire people though? I can recommend that someone be let go to HR, but ultimately that's not up to managers. The process takes at least 6 months unless for gross misconduct anyway, it's far too complex to be up to a single person.
  - danaris 6y ago
    This sounds a lot like differences in individual companies' organizational structures—I bet there are some where a "team lead" is more of a "first among equals," while others, as you describe, are primarily managing their group of technical specialists of whatever stripe. Similarly, in some organizations, managers tell HR, "We should fire this person," while in others, they tell HR, "Hey, I just fired this person."
    - gamesbrainiac 6y ago
      I've never ever felt anything other than a first-among-equals as a lead. I've learned so much from my team, and I'm proud of where my former team members are now. I dont intend to be anything else should I become a manager again,
  - sriram_sun 6y ago
    If you don't have the title, you are (voluntarily?) taking a pay cut relative to someone else in your company who has a manager title.
    - gambiting 6y ago
      There isn't anyone at the entire company with a manager title. It doesn't exist. Well, that's not quite true - we have a "discipline manager" who works with HR but he doesn't actually manage anyone. Team leads are equivalent to what I read managers are in other companies.
- cplanas 6y ago
  In my company, "team lead" is definitely a management role: an entry-level one, but still management. For technical tie-breaking we have a different position, "tech lead".
scarface74 6y ago
Out of three levers of power in an organization, role power is the least effective, especially when you are managing engineers. Pre-Covid at least, if the engineers didn’t like a manager, you could easily find another job. Also managers can’t force anyone with any experience to work longer hours through force of will. The people who have power in an organization get it through building relationships and building a reputation.
xxpor 6y ago
>The fact of the matter is this, management _is_ a promotion, because you get paid more and you gain access to more powers. If it were _not_ a promotion within the company, no one would take it up. Disagree. It's a different job, not a harder or easier one. It's just a lateral move. Some people are better at managing people and projects, and some people are better at doing engineering. A lot of managers become managers when they realize they're a medium tier engineer and they're honest with themselves and realize the future is stagnation. These managers tend to be the better managers! They have more empathy for the tradeoffs that are occurring. That being said, where this is partially true is that it's certainly easier to move up the ladder as a manager than an IC, in my experience. There's just more jobs to be had.
- gamesbrainiac 6y ago
  More money + more power = promotion.

coding123 6y ago

I've never seen "team lead" as a management role. Team lead is more of technical tie-breaker role on technical decisions. It's not a management role if you can't fire someone.

gamesbrainiac 6y ago
I was a Team Lead, and I could fire someone, but that firing would be handled by HR. Also in Europe, you can't fire people at will like you can in the US, which is a lot more humane.
gambiting 6y ago
I am a team lead and I'm definitely a manager - 80% of my time is managing people, not making technical decisions, that's more for technical directors(who in turn do not manage anyone). And why would managers be able to fire people though? I can recommend that someone be let go to HR, but ultimately that's not up to managers. The process takes at least 6 months unless for gross misconduct anyway, it's far too complex to be up to a single person.
- danaris 6y ago
  This sounds a lot like differences in individual companies' organizational structures—I bet there are some where a "team lead" is more of a "first among equals," while others, as you describe, are primarily managing their group of technical specialists of whatever stripe. Similarly, in some organizations, managers tell HR, "We should fire this person," while in others, they tell HR, "Hey, I just fired this person."
  - gamesbrainiac 6y ago
    I've never ever felt anything other than a first-among-equals as a lead. I've learned so much from my team, and I'm proud of where my former team members are now. I dont intend to be anything else should I become a manager again,
- sriram_sun 6y ago
  If you don't have the title, you are (voluntarily?) taking a pay cut relative to someone else in your company who has a manager title.
  - gambiting 6y ago
    There isn't anyone at the entire company with a manager title. It doesn't exist. Well, that's not quite true - we have a "discipline manager" who works with HR but he doesn't actually manage anyone. Team leads are equivalent to what I read managers are in other companies.
cplanas 6y ago
In my company, "team lead" is definitely a management role: an entry-level one, but still management. For technical tie-breaking we have a different position, "tech lead".

scarface74 6y ago

Out of three levers of power in an organization, role power is the least effective, especially when you are managing engineers. Pre-Covid at least, if the engineers didn’t like a manager, you could easily find another job. Also managers can’t force anyone with any experience to work longer hours through force of will. The people who have power in an organization get it through building relationships and building a reputation.

xxpor 6y ago

>The fact of the matter is this, management _is_ a promotion, because you get paid more and you gain access to more powers. If it were _not_ a promotion within the company, no one would take it up. Disagree. It's a different job, not a harder or easier one. It's just a lateral move. Some people are better at managing people and projects, and some people are better at doing engineering. A lot of managers become managers when they realize they're a medium tier engineer and they're honest with themselves and realize the future is stagnation. These managers tend to be the better managers! They have more empathy for the tradeoffs that are occurring. That being said, where this is partially true is that it's certainly easier to move up the ladder as a manager than an IC, in my experience. There's just more jobs to be had.

gamesbrainiac 6y ago
More money + more power = promotion.