4 ms·

> But definitely take obvious and easy measures that leverage obscurity to add another layer of defense, such as changing default ports, port-knocking, or whate

> But definitely take obvious and easy measures that leverage obscurity to add another layer of defense, such as changing default ports, port-knocking, or whatever. Except that can lead to operational problems down the road. For example "oh yes, we're nice and secure, not only do you need a 512bit private key to get into this device, you also need to connect from a secure network" Then along comes covid, and you can't get into the building. "Oh dear, you're not on the secure network, you can't come in" So you spend 2 hours (while your network isn't working right and you're losing customers) finding and getting in through a back door.

0xFluegel 6y ago
I would call that system secure. It does not just rely on an obscure password but is actually restricted by a list of whitelisted networks. The failure in that case is only that the admin didn't consider that normal work might be done from home at some point or that the middle or upper manager thinks that he should be able to freely administrate his critical infrastructure from anywhere...
- jjoonathan 6y ago
  IP whitelists break so often for "unanticipated reasons" that I've lost all sympathy for not anticipating it. Doubly so for using a whitelist to lock yourself out of the whitelist admin. It's so common the security community should make it a meme to spread awareness: Don't get pwned by DHCP while running from SSH 0-day RCEs.
gowld 6y ago
Of course security can lead to operational problems. Security is a trade-off against convenience.
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  > Of course security can lead to operational problems. So can lack of security.
cat199 6y ago
> Except that can lead to operational problems down the road. in the example you mention the 'security' is working by design, but the operational parameters changed which in turn made that security model unsuitable - so it is the parameter change, rather than the 'security' is what led to the problems. The original system could have been just as 'obscure' but also included an appropriately secured mechanism that allowed for this kind of remote access / disaster scenario.
ziml77 6y ago
That isn't obscurity. And in your scenario, there was a security hole if the requirement was that you had to be on the intranet, but someone was able to gain access from the outside.

0xFluegel 6y ago

I would call that system secure. It does not just rely on an obscure password but is actually restricted by a list of whitelisted networks. The failure in that case is only that the admin didn't consider that normal work might be done from home at some point or that the middle or upper manager thinks that he should be able to freely administrate his critical infrastructure from anywhere...

jjoonathan 6y ago
IP whitelists break so often for "unanticipated reasons" that I've lost all sympathy for not anticipating it. Doubly so for using a whitelist to lock yourself out of the whitelist admin. It's so common the security community should make it a meme to spread awareness: Don't get pwned by DHCP while running from SSH 0-day RCEs.

gowld 6y ago

Of course security can lead to operational problems. Security is a trade-off against convenience.

dane-pgp 6y ago
> Of course security can lead to operational problems. So can lack of security.

cat199 6y ago

> Except that can lead to operational problems down the road. in the example you mention the 'security' is working by design, but the operational parameters changed which in turn made that security model unsuitable - so it is the parameter change, rather than the 'security' is what led to the problems. The original system could have been just as 'obscure' but also included an appropriately secured mechanism that allowed for this kind of remote access / disaster scenario.

ziml77 6y ago

That isn't obscurity. And in your scenario, there was a security hole if the requirement was that you had to be on the intranet, but someone was able to gain access from the outside.