3 ms·

Let me give you an example. At a previous job as a devops, of my predecessors frequently used these "techniques, minus the encrypted database but I sure he woul

Let me give you an example. At a previous job as a devops, of my predecessors frequently used these "techniques, minus the encrypted database but I sure he would have done it if he knew how. So there was some buggy internal app they needed some new features added to and the person who wrote it thought he was clever and obfuscated the code. It took me a whopping 30 minutes churn through his 'clever' obfuscation scheme and the randomized variable were just a nuisance. Honestly his best obfuscation technique was his horrible code that made no sense. Even OP's advice about running services on non-standard ports isn't sound. Who doesn't run a service scan? Even sites like Shodan do service discovery for you. I'm going to find whatever port your running ssh on if your running it.

umvi 6y ago
> I'm going to find whatever port your running ssh on if your running it. Not if you have to port knock before the ssh port is open to new connections.
- gowld 6y ago
  Why not? I'll run my automated port knocker
  - umvi 6y ago
    Huh? How would that work? You have no idea what my port knocking scheme is. For all you know you have to knock ports 22, 46, 1776, and 8998 to the timing of "shave and a haircut" switching between udp and icmp along the way... Good luck, the entropy you have to overcome is astronomical.
  - minerjoe 6y ago
    I would thing that blocking IP's of insessant knockers would be easy to implement.
    - pravda 6y ago
      They use proxies! So many proxies.
kstrauser 6y ago
> I'm going to find whatever port your running ssh on if your running it. I still think it's a good idea. With SSH on port 22, ten thousand bots plus an attacker try to hammer it (so says fail2ban). With SSH on port 9278, zero bots plus an attacker try to hammer it. By throwing away the 99.99% of the chaff, you can see the remaining wheat you care about. Changing SSH ports isn't about saying "yep, we fixed it!" and calling it a day. It's about decreasing the amount of stuff you have to deal with, which is quite useful. It's something you can do in addition to everything else that gives a decent bang for its buck. No, it doesn't keep you out, but it does keep out those thousands of bots crawling around looking for an open 22 to pester.
- weare138 6y ago
  But new people in the industry shouldn't think that the things recommended in the article should be used as a primary defense and are accepted industry practices. Moving SSH to a new port to reduce false security alerts is one thing, having people read that article and walk away thinking this is how we do things is another. We don't.
  - kstrauser 6y ago
    I didn't take that away from the article at all. It said: > So let’s talk about security by obscurity. It’s a bad idea to use it as a single layer of defense. If the attacker passes it, there is nothing else to protect you. But it’s actually would be good to use it as an “additional” layer of defense. Because it has a low implementation cost and it usually works well. I think it's good to do those things in addition to the other stuff. Obscurity isn't sufficient by itself, but is another layer of defense.
    - weare138 6y ago
      In addition to the stuff you should really being doing? That stuff is hard enough for beginners, without confusing them with speculation like this that goes against best practices and common sense, especially without clearly explaining the pitfalls and real dangers to each of these hypothetical scenarios. Besides, if you're already using industry accepted solutions to security problems and someone manages to gain unauthorized access anyways don't expect any of this amateur crap to offer any real protection at that point.

umvi 6y ago

> I'm going to find whatever port your running ssh on if your running it. Not if you have to port knock before the ssh port is open to new connections.

gowld 6y ago
Why not? I'll run my automated port knocker
- umvi 6y ago
  Huh? How would that work? You have no idea what my port knocking scheme is. For all you know you have to knock ports 22, 46, 1776, and 8998 to the timing of "shave and a haircut" switching between udp and icmp along the way... Good luck, the entropy you have to overcome is astronomical.
- minerjoe 6y ago
  I would thing that blocking IP's of insessant knockers would be easy to implement.
  - pravda 6y ago
    They use proxies! So many proxies.

kstrauser 6y ago

> I'm going to find whatever port your running ssh on if your running it. I still think it's a good idea. With SSH on port 22, ten thousand bots plus an attacker try to hammer it (so says fail2ban). With SSH on port 9278, zero bots plus an attacker try to hammer it. By throwing away the 99.99% of the chaff, you can see the remaining wheat you care about. Changing SSH ports isn't about saying "yep, we fixed it!" and calling it a day. It's about decreasing the amount of stuff you have to deal with, which is quite useful. It's something you can do in addition to everything else that gives a decent bang for its buck. No, it doesn't keep you out, but it does keep out those thousands of bots crawling around looking for an open 22 to pester.

weare138 6y ago
But new people in the industry shouldn't think that the things recommended in the article should be used as a primary defense and are accepted industry practices. Moving SSH to a new port to reduce false security alerts is one thing, having people read that article and walk away thinking this is how we do things is another. We don't.
- kstrauser 6y ago
  I didn't take that away from the article at all. It said: > So let’s talk about security by obscurity. It’s a bad idea to use it as a single layer of defense. If the attacker passes it, there is nothing else to protect you. But it’s actually would be good to use it as an “additional” layer of defense. Because it has a low implementation cost and it usually works well. I think it's good to do those things in addition to the other stuff. Obscurity isn't sufficient by itself, but is another layer of defense.
  - weare138 6y ago
    In addition to the stuff you should really being doing? That stuff is hard enough for beginners, without confusing them with speculation like this that goes against best practices and common sense, especially without clearly explaining the pitfalls and real dangers to each of these hypothetical scenarios. Besides, if you're already using industry accepted solutions to security problems and someone manages to gain unauthorized access anyways don't expect any of this amateur crap to offer any real protection at that point.