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This is an interesting instance of two HN tropes in conflict: Managers are able to ‘create’ more (by improving IC productivity) than any individual contributor

by nickff 6y ago

This is an interesting instance of two HN tropes in conflict: Managers are able to ‘create’ more (by improving IC productivity) than any individual contributor (and thus more value), unless you believe in 10x engineers.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
joshuamorton 6y ago
A senior IC who is a technical lead or area lead can do the same without formally leading anyone. I know of quite a few teams where there is a high level manager and an equal level IC who report to the same director. They're both responsible for the same scope of work, (and this is oversimplifying) just one is responsible for the tech and one for the people.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  Yeah, I'm the technical lead and report to a director. My contributions are 50% personal, 50% "team acceleration" (ie: ensure your teammates are able to get things done quicker including pairing, code walkthroughs, documentation, last minute team changes to ensure a project succeeds)
jgeada 6y ago
It is a meme that is largely self-fulfilling under the wrong organizational incentives: as managers control how and what information flows in an organization, managers in many organizations claim a lions share of credit for successes and delegate failures. What is more likely: that Musk is a genius electric car engineer, rocket engineer, battery engineer, tunnel boring machine engineer, ... ? Or that he takes credit from those people in his various teams? Don't get me wrong, there is certainly value from assembling the right team.
Viliam1234 6y ago
I think it is similar for managers and developers. There are 10x managers and 10x developers, but both are very rare. The are also net-negative managers and net-negative developers, both are a minority but sufficiently large that most people already met a few of them. That is, a manager can "create more than any individual contributor", but most of them don't.

by nickff 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

joshuamorton 6y ago

A senior IC who is a technical lead or area lead can do the same without formally leading anyone. I know of quite a few teams where there is a high level manager and an equal level IC who report to the same director. They're both responsible for the same scope of work, (and this is oversimplifying) just one is responsible for the tech and one for the people.

WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
Yeah, I'm the technical lead and report to a director. My contributions are 50% personal, 50% "team acceleration" (ie: ensure your teammates are able to get things done quicker including pairing, code walkthroughs, documentation, last minute team changes to ensure a project succeeds)

jgeada 6y ago

It is a meme that is largely self-fulfilling under the wrong organizational incentives: as managers control how and what information flows in an organization, managers in many organizations claim a lions share of credit for successes and delegate failures. What is more likely: that Musk is a genius electric car engineer, rocket engineer, battery engineer, tunnel boring machine engineer, ... ? Or that he takes credit from those people in his various teams? Don't get me wrong, there is certainly value from assembling the right team.

Viliam1234 6y ago

I think it is similar for managers and developers. There are 10x managers and 10x developers, but both are very rare. The are also net-negative managers and net-negative developers, both are a minority but sufficiently large that most people already met a few of them. That is, a manager can "create more than any individual contributor", but most of them don't.