5 ms·

> “As smartphones become more and more a part of the fundamental infrastructure of society” This perspective underpins a lot of the pushback against Apple & Go

by mlthoughts2018 6y ago

> “As smartphones become more and more a part of the fundamental infrastructure of society” This perspective underpins a lot of the pushback against Apple & Google but I just don’t understand it. Any cell phone, and especially a smartphone, is not integral to modern society. Random usage by consumers is recreational. Businesses have a million ways to replace things they ask employees to rely on smartphones for. In fact not all uses of smartphones are productivity increasing, and it could easily be argued that we need better ways to just switch them off, whether at work or at home, to get things done. An iPhone is like a video game console. Whether you use for seemingly “important” things like PagerDuty or day trading or checking your child’s location or hailing a car ride for a home-bound elder or sick person ... the smartphone is purely extra consumer gadgetry to do it and it could be accomplished many other ways. Given that smartphones are just an optional, convenient luxury item, I don’t see how any argument about them being critical to modern society can possibly be used to claim Apple must be forced to operate its app distribution channel a certain way or cannot set its own monetization policies.

enragedcacti 6y ago
17% of people in the US use their smartphone as their only portal to the internet [1]. Is your argument that as long as they can go use a computer at a library that their smartphone is a luxury item? Access to the internet (or someone to access it for you) is basically a prerequisite for existing in modern society and phones are how people choose to do it most of the time. This like saying "hey, if you don't like buying from standard oil, just get a horse!" when 1) you might already have a car, 2) you can't afford a horse on top of that, and 3) society has restructured itself such that a horse is not even viable in your day-to-day life. [1] https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/06/17/pew-smartphone-only-internet-use/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/06/17/pew-smartphone-only...
- parasubvert 6y ago
  It is an incredible lack of imagination to think we are at the end of history on mobile device OSes and thus they should become utilities. Oil is a natural resource. This is software that didn’t exist 12 years ago.
  - enragedcacti 6y ago
    We aren't really talking about OSes though, we are talking about software distribution. No one is trying to force Apple to let other phone manufacturers use iOS or force them to open source it. Is advertising and hosting software so novel that it doesn't deserve any scrutiny?
- pjmlp 6y ago
  Usually if one cannot afford a car, there are bicycles, motorbikes, horses and wonder public transport to choose from. Just like there are plenty of Internet capable smartphones that aren't made by Apple.
- pb7 6y ago
  Interesting how it was decided that the most luxurious manufacturer is the standard for accessing the internet. Like requiring driving a Ferrari to flip burgers at McDonald’s.
d0100 6y ago
> Given that smartphones are just an optional, convenient luxury item A smartphone is not a luxury item. It is a productivity device. It is a general purpose computer, no matter how Apple wants to say it isn't. It is also a vital machine for participation in the democracy. For many it is the only way they can talk to others and to their government representatives. > An iPhone is like a video game console The minute that video game consoles have "games" that are text editors, file editors, web browsers, email clients, etc, they stop being gaming platforms and become productivity devices that replace the household computer.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  What is a “productivity device”? You seem to think that’s some kind of platonic “thing” that exists, but it’s not. Web browsers, email clients, etc., are just discretionary products people may prefer to use for recreational or personal reasons. They are not structurally required. You seem to be conflating the idea of “this thing is convenient for what I like to do” with “this thing should be supported as a pivotal component of civic life.” Smartphones are absolutely nowhere remotely close to the latter.
  - d0100 6y ago
    > this thing should be supported as a pivotal component of civic life Covid shows us that a smartphone is a pivotal component of your literal life. At risk patients now can have doctor appointments over video and electronic prescriptions. This mostly happens on portable devices. These portable devices, despite branding and marketing, work in the same way to enable citizens to actively participate in the democracy (access to information, discussion, governmental resources, etc), their personal life (healthcare, family and education) but also on their professional life (working in a Uber-for-X, using maps, search, etc) Portable and relatively cheap, smartphones are a necessity, a utility. You can argue that "not exactly", but it is what it is. The bigger and more ubiquitous something is, the closer it is to a utility and a shared space. Being part of a private enterprise is secondary and shouldn't take precedence over society. When you replace the town square with your big backyard, it then becomes the townsquare
himinlomax 6y ago
> Any cell phone, and especially a smartphone, is not integral to modern society Neither is hot, running water. A bucket and a hole in the backyard were good enough for my ancestors, they're good enough for everyone else in 2020! Joke aside, are you saying online banking and payment is a luxury? Do you realize that many basic services are switching over to smartphone payment? Such as public transport fares.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  The joke doesn’t land though, because hot running water affects septic systems, sterilization, and many other public health concerns that easily make it considerable as a public utility. Online banking or smartphone public transit passes aren’t just luxuries, they are extreme luxuries. For example, I don’t have any banking apps on my phone and I get mailed a paper subway pass every month. Same for millions of others. No banking app is owed a slot in an app store, and no consumer is owed an app based workflow. Those are just products in a marketplace, nowhere remotely close to the concept of public utilities.
  - himinlomax 6y ago
    > Online banking or smartphone public transit passes aren’t just luxuries, they are extreme luxuries. True, you could just shoplift your food instead of paying for it with money earned by going to a job. Not sure what your definition of "luxury" let alone "extreme luxury" is, but it clearly is a unique one.
    - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
      That’s a ridiculously myopic response. Most of the world doesn’t have adequate access to sufficient education, clean water, basic disease prevention, birth control, etc. But here you are acting self-righteous about online app-based banking and comparing the lack of convenient apps with poverty induced food theft? You need a reality check.
      - 6y ago

enragedcacti 6y ago

17% of people in the US use their smartphone as their only portal to the internet [1]. Is your argument that as long as they can go use a computer at a library that their smartphone is a luxury item? Access to the internet (or someone to access it for you) is basically a prerequisite for existing in modern society and phones are how people choose to do it most of the time. This like saying "hey, if you don't like buying from standard oil, just get a horse!" when 1) you might already have a car, 2) you can't afford a horse on top of that, and 3) society has restructured itself such that a horse is not even viable in your day-to-day life. [1] https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/06/17/pew-smartphone-only-internet-use/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/06/17/pew-smartphone-only...

parasubvert 6y ago
It is an incredible lack of imagination to think we are at the end of history on mobile device OSes and thus they should become utilities. Oil is a natural resource. This is software that didn’t exist 12 years ago.
- enragedcacti 6y ago
  We aren't really talking about OSes though, we are talking about software distribution. No one is trying to force Apple to let other phone manufacturers use iOS or force them to open source it. Is advertising and hosting software so novel that it doesn't deserve any scrutiny?
pjmlp 6y ago
Usually if one cannot afford a car, there are bicycles, motorbikes, horses and wonder public transport to choose from. Just like there are plenty of Internet capable smartphones that aren't made by Apple.
pb7 6y ago
Interesting how it was decided that the most luxurious manufacturer is the standard for accessing the internet. Like requiring driving a Ferrari to flip burgers at McDonald’s.

d0100 6y ago

> Given that smartphones are just an optional, convenient luxury item A smartphone is not a luxury item. It is a productivity device. It is a general purpose computer, no matter how Apple wants to say it isn't. It is also a vital machine for participation in the democracy. For many it is the only way they can talk to others and to their government representatives. > An iPhone is like a video game console The minute that video game consoles have "games" that are text editors, file editors, web browsers, email clients, etc, they stop being gaming platforms and become productivity devices that replace the household computer.

mlthoughts2018 6y ago
What is a “productivity device”? You seem to think that’s some kind of platonic “thing” that exists, but it’s not. Web browsers, email clients, etc., are just discretionary products people may prefer to use for recreational or personal reasons. They are not structurally required. You seem to be conflating the idea of “this thing is convenient for what I like to do” with “this thing should be supported as a pivotal component of civic life.” Smartphones are absolutely nowhere remotely close to the latter.
- d0100 6y ago
  > this thing should be supported as a pivotal component of civic life Covid shows us that a smartphone is a pivotal component of your literal life. At risk patients now can have doctor appointments over video and electronic prescriptions. This mostly happens on portable devices. These portable devices, despite branding and marketing, work in the same way to enable citizens to actively participate in the democracy (access to information, discussion, governmental resources, etc), their personal life (healthcare, family and education) but also on their professional life (working in a Uber-for-X, using maps, search, etc) Portable and relatively cheap, smartphones are a necessity, a utility. You can argue that "not exactly", but it is what it is. The bigger and more ubiquitous something is, the closer it is to a utility and a shared space. Being part of a private enterprise is secondary and shouldn't take precedence over society. When you replace the town square with your big backyard, it then becomes the townsquare

himinlomax 6y ago

> Any cell phone, and especially a smartphone, is not integral to modern society Neither is hot, running water. A bucket and a hole in the backyard were good enough for my ancestors, they're good enough for everyone else in 2020! Joke aside, are you saying online banking and payment is a luxury? Do you realize that many basic services are switching over to smartphone payment? Such as public transport fares.

mlthoughts2018 6y ago
The joke doesn’t land though, because hot running water affects septic systems, sterilization, and many other public health concerns that easily make it considerable as a public utility. Online banking or smartphone public transit passes aren’t just luxuries, they are extreme luxuries. For example, I don’t have any banking apps on my phone and I get mailed a paper subway pass every month. Same for millions of others. No banking app is owed a slot in an app store, and no consumer is owed an app based workflow. Those are just products in a marketplace, nowhere remotely close to the concept of public utilities.
- himinlomax 6y ago
  > Online banking or smartphone public transit passes aren’t just luxuries, they are extreme luxuries. True, you could just shoplift your food instead of paying for it with money earned by going to a job. Not sure what your definition of "luxury" let alone "extreme luxury" is, but it clearly is a unique one.
  - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
    That’s a ridiculously myopic response. Most of the world doesn’t have adequate access to sufficient education, clean water, basic disease prevention, birth control, etc. But here you are acting self-righteous about online app-based banking and comparing the lack of convenient apps with poverty induced food theft? You need a reality check.
    - 6y ago