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Yes, it can be stopped. All Tim Sweeney is to do is build another mobile hardware/software platform and set the rules for app distribution however he likes. Tha

Yes, it can be stopped. All Tim Sweeney is to do is build another mobile hardware/software platform and set the rules for app distribution however he likes. That is the way to beat a monopoly.

kyran_adept 6y ago
The closer you are to the root of the tree, the harder it is to "build an alternative". It's the same for the road system, power distribution system, mobile platforms(Android, Apple), etc. I can't afford as a customer to buy a device just to play Fortnite, nor should I.
- Zhyl 6y ago
  You can leverage existing alternatives, which they already do to some extent. Epic has invested massively in Blender, for example. It's interesting that they've gone the 'pick a fight' route, when 8 years ago when Valve had similar concerns about Windows 8 they did as GP suggested and rolled their own Linux distro and made a bid for the living room space. That particular offensive failed, but Valve's continued investment in the Linux space now means that now, 8 years later, most AAA games without Anti-cheat or some kinds of DRM can be played on Linux seamlessly. If Epic wanted to do likewise, they could invest in Librem 5 or Pinephone and make alternatives more viable.
  - tutino 6y ago
    That's interesting because indeed Librem 5, Pinephone, etc. could be indeed a unique opportunity for Epic (and Valve) to have their own mobile stores under their own rules. Sure, currently it is insignificant, but so is Linux Desktop, yet Valve invests in Wine/Photon/Wayland/etc. and on the long run it might pay off when they'll have their own consoles. I don't really understand Tim S. , on one hand he hates Apple monopoly, on the other hand he also hates Linux which is the only viable alternative, yet he still supports open source a lot (e.g epic mega grant)
- ecf 6y ago
  Just because it’s hard to start a new tree when you’re at the root doesn’t mean the up and coming tree can hire a lumberjack to cut down the existing tree.
IncRnd 6y ago
But, he cannot feasibly do that, which is exactly why Epic has sued Apple.
- JimDabell 6y ago
  > he cannot feasibly do that Apple did. They were worth approximately the same as Epic are now when they launched the iPhone. They hadn’t any meaningful presence in the phone industry and people thought it was ridiculous that they were trying. Palm CEO Ed Colligan: > We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in. Telstra COO Greg Winn: > There’s an old saying — stick to your knitting — and Apple is not a mobile phone manufacturer, that’s not their knitting… Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer: > There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. In 2007, there were tonnes of people saying “Apple cannot feasibly do that” as well, just like you are saying it about Epic today. But Apple did it anyway and succeeded. Epic have that opportunity too, they could attempt to build their own mobile platform. Apple tried and succeeded. Google tried and succeeded. Epic could try, but instead they are asking the court to force Apple and Google to change their platforms to be more favourable to Epic’s wishes.
  - IncRnd 6y ago
    You misunderstand. People won't discard their iPhones in order to purchase a Fortnite phone without the iPhone apps. It is not feasible to even consider that.
jpambrun 6y ago
That's a really simple view of the issue. You can't reasonably think even a large corporation such as Epic can achieve that. That is what makes Apple/Google a duopoly in the mobile computing space. At this point, without any state intervention, they can abuse their position of power to bully devs and consumer. I don't care that they had to "work hard" to get there or whatever; the fact is they now have too much power.
- DivisionSol 6y ago
  Apple & Google both did it, and are doing nothing to stop others from entering the (phone) market. Just because a market is hard or expensive to get into doesn't mean it's not a market worth entering. The real crux is Epic doesn't actually want an open phone platform, they just want to be software rent-slurping middlemen for an arbitrary 'cut' of a pie.
  - nickflood 6y ago
    Doing nothing is unfortunately a complete opposite of what they are doing.
    - yladiz 6y ago
      How are they stopping other companies from entering (as in, with their own OS and/or hardware) the mobile phone market?
  - jpambrun 6y ago
    You're argument rely on the assumption that entering the smartphone market now is as easy as it was when Google and Apple did it, which is ludicrous. Edit: even if it was as "easy". It's not like there are dozens of companies the size of Google and Apple that could pull it off.

Yes, it can be stopped. All Tim Sweeney is to do is build another mobile hardware/software platform and set the rules for app distribution however he likes. That is the way to beat a monopoly.

kyran_adept 6y ago

The closer you are to the root of the tree, the harder it is to "build an alternative". It's the same for the road system, power distribution system, mobile platforms(Android, Apple), etc. I can't afford as a customer to buy a device just to play Fortnite, nor should I.

Zhyl 6y ago
You can leverage existing alternatives, which they already do to some extent. Epic has invested massively in Blender, for example. It's interesting that they've gone the 'pick a fight' route, when 8 years ago when Valve had similar concerns about Windows 8 they did as GP suggested and rolled their own Linux distro and made a bid for the living room space. That particular offensive failed, but Valve's continued investment in the Linux space now means that now, 8 years later, most AAA games without Anti-cheat or some kinds of DRM can be played on Linux seamlessly. If Epic wanted to do likewise, they could invest in Librem 5 or Pinephone and make alternatives more viable.
- tutino 6y ago
  That's interesting because indeed Librem 5, Pinephone, etc. could be indeed a unique opportunity for Epic (and Valve) to have their own mobile stores under their own rules. Sure, currently it is insignificant, but so is Linux Desktop, yet Valve invests in Wine/Photon/Wayland/etc. and on the long run it might pay off when they'll have their own consoles. I don't really understand Tim S. , on one hand he hates Apple monopoly, on the other hand he also hates Linux which is the only viable alternative, yet he still supports open source a lot (e.g epic mega grant)
ecf 6y ago
Just because it’s hard to start a new tree when you’re at the root doesn’t mean the up and coming tree can hire a lumberjack to cut down the existing tree.

IncRnd 6y ago

But, he cannot feasibly do that, which is exactly why Epic has sued Apple.

JimDabell 6y ago
> he cannot feasibly do that Apple did. They were worth approximately the same as Epic are now when they launched the iPhone. They hadn’t any meaningful presence in the phone industry and people thought it was ridiculous that they were trying. Palm CEO Ed Colligan: > We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in. Telstra COO Greg Winn: > There’s an old saying — stick to your knitting — and Apple is not a mobile phone manufacturer, that’s not their knitting… Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer: > There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. In 2007, there were tonnes of people saying “Apple cannot feasibly do that” as well, just like you are saying it about Epic today. But Apple did it anyway and succeeded. Epic have that opportunity too, they could attempt to build their own mobile platform. Apple tried and succeeded. Google tried and succeeded. Epic could try, but instead they are asking the court to force Apple and Google to change their platforms to be more favourable to Epic’s wishes.
- IncRnd 6y ago
  You misunderstand. People won't discard their iPhones in order to purchase a Fortnite phone without the iPhone apps. It is not feasible to even consider that.

jpambrun 6y ago

That's a really simple view of the issue. You can't reasonably think even a large corporation such as Epic can achieve that. That is what makes Apple/Google a duopoly in the mobile computing space. At this point, without any state intervention, they can abuse their position of power to bully devs and consumer. I don't care that they had to "work hard" to get there or whatever; the fact is they now have too much power.

DivisionSol 6y ago
Apple & Google both did it, and are doing nothing to stop others from entering the (phone) market. Just because a market is hard or expensive to get into doesn't mean it's not a market worth entering. The real crux is Epic doesn't actually want an open phone platform, they just want to be software rent-slurping middlemen for an arbitrary 'cut' of a pie.
- nickflood 6y ago
  Doing nothing is unfortunately a complete opposite of what they are doing.
  - yladiz 6y ago
    How are they stopping other companies from entering (as in, with their own OS and/or hardware) the mobile phone market?
- jpambrun 6y ago
  You're argument rely on the assumption that entering the smartphone market now is as easy as it was when Google and Apple did it, which is ludicrous. Edit: even if it was as "easy". It's not like there are dozens of companies the size of Google and Apple that could pull it off.