8 ms·

Read the blog post and also the other blog post in the page ( "Why discipline isn’t the answer to procrastination", "How to stick to good habits without being h

Read the blog post and also the other blog post in the page ( "Why discipline isn’t the answer to procrastination", "How to stick to good habits without being hard on yourself", "How fear of shame causes procrastination", "How fear of success causes procrastination"). I get the feeling that the author is in a situation a lot of people in HN could relate to: A situation where Performance Anxiety, Fear of missing out (FOMO), Fear of being left behind, distraction and ADHD all gets entangled in ones work , personal life & choice of how to spend their time. It seems like if these things are left unchecked for a long time, the things can lead to depression, or other form of negative mental state. My question is how do you solve/amend this? Reading comments from similar themed post on HN it seems like a lot of people are aware of themselves having one or more of the above. Some seems to have accepted it, others seek help from therapist. But a lot of people also seems to feel like they don't want to "lose" the feel of guilt, stress, bad self image that follow performance anxiety and fear of missing out because they take their negative emotional reaction as a virtue that pushes them to improvement in stressful times (myself being one of them). It seems like vast majority defaults to "work harder, smarter" as a solution, and only later in life when "working harder" have a diminished (sense) of return, or when they hit a wall, change their course of action.

teekert 6y ago
I think, as op also insinuates, it is all about acceptance. Accepting one's shortcomings, accepting that you can't do everything you want(ed), that you wont become what you always dreamed of. Love yourself despite of what you think of as shortcomings, think of the things you did achieve (and the things you have, like a stoic philosopher). You are a pretty incredible being with pretty incredible skills. If only you acknowledged yourself as such. Now this "accepting" is not just something you (can) just do, it may be exactly what you need a therapist for. Because you may have to undo years of thinking and redefine your default thought patterns, this is very hard work. For all the parents, I think this is a pretty important thing to teach your kids. Telling them: "If you work hard you can be whatever you want to be!" Is, imho, damaging, because it is not true, you are setting them up for disappointment in themselves. In short: Happiness = Reality - Expectation Don't burden yourself or your kids with unrealistically large expectations.
- heinrichhartman 6y ago
  > I think, as op also insinuates, it is all about acceptance. I second this. From my experience you have to START WITH ACCEPTING the status quo and honestly looking at it without judging or being ashamed. It helps me to tell myself: "This is not terrible. I am alive. I have a job. My body is still working OK." From there FOCUS ON THE DELTA: What can I do today that will bring me into a slightly better position tomorrow. Avoid thinking about the past ("I ate too much today.", "I did not exercise all week."). This is done. No way to change it. Don't set high expectations. You only need to know where you want to be, and that you are going into the right direction. It does not matter much if you arrive there in one week or in five years.
  - codeisawesome 6y ago
    I think the next level of peace and acceptance is unlocked when: - you set the delta of “what can I do today to achieve” to be low enough that it’s actually realistic and not what you wish it was (while still being high enough to actually mean something), and, - if you still fall short, you don’t kill yourself with shame & guilt, recognising that you actually lose more time in that process. Not easy to learn, and not easy to stay in that space. Meditation helps (after a long long time of doing it). (Oh and if you have ADHD - undiagnosed or otherwise - please forgive yourself for it, and forgive yourself each time you get thrown off the rails because of it - yes, even if that is multiple times per hour. Everything else flows from that forgiveness and self acceptance.)
- poisonborz 6y ago
  I think rating expectations beforehand is a self-defeating stance. Anyone can have whatever big expectations. The point is to work towards it, and then not being disappointed if the goal is not reached, and to enjoy whatever gains were collected on the road.
  - teekert 6y ago
    I wonder if there are humans that are really immune to feeling bad when constantly not living up to their own expectations. Nothing wrong with working hard of course, just make sure you like what you do and who you are while doing it.
sudosteph 6y ago
I can speak on the ADHD aspect of that at least. As for the other things you've described - those might be more anxiety-adjacent issues, and aren't something I can speak to. I've still dealt with depression a few times - but each time that had it's root in untreated ADHD or autism spectrum issues. Personally, the issue for the longest time was that I didn't understand my own issues. I went way too long without seeking a diagnosis, because I mistakenly believed that medical treatment wouldn't be helpful or attainable as an adult. Turns out medical treatment (psychiatrist - not a therapist) helped me a whole lot. So did doing detailed research on ADHD. The work of Dr. Russel Barkley on ADHD as an executive functioning disorder was particularly informative. As for trying to reconcile my ADHD with a (healthy) sense of motivation - the best thing I found was actually from some random blog post that basically summarized the information in this article (https://www.additudemag.com/secrets-of-the-adhd-brain/ https://www.additudemag.com/secrets-of-the-adhd-brain/ ). The brief summary: most people without ADHD have behaviors which are motivated by the concepts of Importance, Rewards, and Consequences. People with ADHD are aware of all of those things existing, and often do "care" about them - but if you look at the behavior of people with ADHD - those aren't the things which actually motivate us to action on a regular basis. Instead, we are motivated by Interest, Challenge, Novelty, and Urgency. It's not ideal, but even with medication, I've realized that is true for me - and I can't change it. For some jobs, like my first post-college job working as a Support Engineer for Amazon AWS - those motivators were actually great. Tickets have really short-term SLAs and are often urgent, AWS was a challenging and interesting work environment, and for the the first year it everything was very novel. However, when I progressed in my in career towards more of a DevOps role, I started working somewhere which practiced two week sprints for everything - which was a total disaster. Kanban worked a good bit better, but no matter where I worked - the novelty, interest, and challenge of the work eventually wore off - and relying on crunch time to motivate myself was causing burnout. I did think the consequence of guilt or shame from disappointing my teammates was a motivator and felt stress related to that. But in truth, that feeling was something that I mostly felt after I had forgot to do something or ran out of time - and not something that drove me to get work done. So now I'm just leaning in to the whole thing, risks be damned. I left a pretty cushy remote-work salary job to build a startup, and I've started doing some freelance work on the side for extra income. I pick what I work on, so I'm super interested, I'm challenged frequently, it's novel (for now) and the freelance stuff is urgent because I don't get paid til I deliver. For stuff that is boring and executive functioning related (paying bills, scheduling meetings) - I try to automate as much as possible and be sure notifications for things go to both me and my non-ADHD co-founder who can nag me if I miss something. If I see a lot of success, I would like to pay a personal assistant or secretary to keep things organized / handle boring communications on my behalf. I spent a few years working for an executive who clearly had ADHD, and having an assistant was incredibly helpful to him. I'm aware this could all crash and burn - but my daily needs are being met and I'm enjoying my life a lot more. It does feel like I'm working smarter. Though I am technically working harder too.
asiachick 6y ago
I clicked through to one of those articles where it soon brings up "Ego Depletion" which AFAIK has been debunked.
- zoozla 6y ago
  It was debunked and reaffirmed within a narrower context and in general is a pretty controversial concept. Many people however have the personal experience of a limit to their willpower and that's what I'm referring to in the article. I'll actually edit it to remove the reference to Ego Depletion, thanks for poking me.
ghostbrainalpha 6y ago
How do you feel that your negative mental state is improving your performance? I had every problem you describe, and it leads to horrible procrastination. I don't think I would be employable at all without my anti-anxiety medication.
a123b456c 6y ago
For me, the first step was to consciously select meaningful values. That helped me to know what I should do and what I should not do. The second step was weekly self-assessments regarding how well my actions matched my values. It didn't take long to meaningfully and permanently improve my unconscious behaviors.
wh1t3n01s3 6y ago
The best way to overcome this is to take a sabbath year and if you can and if you like, to travel around the world. Or to take on something tou wanted to do for a long time. This helps to clear the mind and break the vicious cicles. Only my opinion based on personal experience
LostTrackHowM 6y ago
My question is how do you solve/amend this? Don't have just one most important/critical thing your life, like your professional life for example. Very serious advice, go outside and exercise. Find a friendly real life community to be part of. Fans of movies, fans of some sport, fans of science, anything, just any group of real people that you share sami-regular or regular friendly time with. Human beings are not made to be alone, regardless of how introverted they are. They are not made to be isolated. They are not made to have little to no physical exercise. We are however made to become easly obsessed to get the job done, so make sure you have more than one fun challenge to become obsessed with.
- thewarrior 6y ago
  Completely agree but covid has completely messed this up. It just makes all this so much more difficult.
forgotmypw17 6y ago
There's discipline and habits, which are important. Then there is motivation... For me, the biggest improvement in motivation came from asking myself questions: What do I really want to be working on and would enjoy working on? Lucky for me, I already had experience when I was young writing software for myself and others which made it easier to do more things on the computer. I stayed up all day and all night, focused, motivated, and productive. I was not motivated by money, deadlines, nor having to have a roof over my head and pay insurance, nor wanting to prove myself to anyone. I was just coding, and all I needed was some sweetened black tea in large quantities... Another question I asked myself was, what does the world need right now, which would make it a better place, that no one else can provide except me? This one is not as easy to answer, and the answer may not be the same today as it was yesterday. But if you keep asking yourself this question and pondering the answer, something will come of it. Another question you may want to ask yourself and ponder on the answer: What am I better at than anyone else in the world, and how can I help others using it?

teekert 6y ago

I think, as op also insinuates, it is all about acceptance. Accepting one's shortcomings, accepting that you can't do everything you want(ed), that you wont become what you always dreamed of. Love yourself despite of what you think of as shortcomings, think of the things you did achieve (and the things you have, like a stoic philosopher). You are a pretty incredible being with pretty incredible skills. If only you acknowledged yourself as such. Now this "accepting" is not just something you (can) just do, it may be exactly what you need a therapist for. Because you may have to undo years of thinking and redefine your default thought patterns, this is very hard work. For all the parents, I think this is a pretty important thing to teach your kids. Telling them: "If you work hard you can be whatever you want to be!" Is, imho, damaging, because it is not true, you are setting them up for disappointment in themselves. In short: Happiness = Reality - Expectation Don't burden yourself or your kids with unrealistically large expectations.

heinrichhartman 6y ago
> I think, as op also insinuates, it is all about acceptance. I second this. From my experience you have to START WITH ACCEPTING the status quo and honestly looking at it without judging or being ashamed. It helps me to tell myself: "This is not terrible. I am alive. I have a job. My body is still working OK." From there FOCUS ON THE DELTA: What can I do today that will bring me into a slightly better position tomorrow. Avoid thinking about the past ("I ate too much today.", "I did not exercise all week."). This is done. No way to change it. Don't set high expectations. You only need to know where you want to be, and that you are going into the right direction. It does not matter much if you arrive there in one week or in five years.
- codeisawesome 6y ago
  I think the next level of peace and acceptance is unlocked when: - you set the delta of “what can I do today to achieve” to be low enough that it’s actually realistic and not what you wish it was (while still being high enough to actually mean something), and, - if you still fall short, you don’t kill yourself with shame & guilt, recognising that you actually lose more time in that process. Not easy to learn, and not easy to stay in that space. Meditation helps (after a long long time of doing it). (Oh and if you have ADHD - undiagnosed or otherwise - please forgive yourself for it, and forgive yourself each time you get thrown off the rails because of it - yes, even if that is multiple times per hour. Everything else flows from that forgiveness and self acceptance.)
poisonborz 6y ago
I think rating expectations beforehand is a self-defeating stance. Anyone can have whatever big expectations. The point is to work towards it, and then not being disappointed if the goal is not reached, and to enjoy whatever gains were collected on the road.
- teekert 6y ago
  I wonder if there are humans that are really immune to feeling bad when constantly not living up to their own expectations. Nothing wrong with working hard of course, just make sure you like what you do and who you are while doing it.

sudosteph 6y ago

I can speak on the ADHD aspect of that at least. As for the other things you've described - those might be more anxiety-adjacent issues, and aren't something I can speak to. I've still dealt with depression a few times - but each time that had it's root in untreated ADHD or autism spectrum issues. Personally, the issue for the longest time was that I didn't understand my own issues. I went way too long without seeking a diagnosis, because I mistakenly believed that medical treatment wouldn't be helpful or attainable as an adult. Turns out medical treatment (psychiatrist - not a therapist) helped me a whole lot. So did doing detailed research on ADHD. The work of Dr. Russel Barkley on ADHD as an executive functioning disorder was particularly informative. As for trying to reconcile my ADHD with a (healthy) sense of motivation - the best thing I found was actually from some random blog post that basically summarized the information in this article (https://www.additudemag.com/secrets-of-the-adhd-brain/ https://www.additudemag.com/secrets-of-the-adhd-brain/ ). The brief summary: most people without ADHD have behaviors which are motivated by the concepts of Importance, Rewards, and Consequences. People with ADHD are aware of all of those things existing, and often do "care" about them - but if you look at the behavior of people with ADHD - those aren't the things which actually motivate us to action on a regular basis. Instead, we are motivated by Interest, Challenge, Novelty, and Urgency. It's not ideal, but even with medication, I've realized that is true for me - and I can't change it. For some jobs, like my first post-college job working as a Support Engineer for Amazon AWS - those motivators were actually great. Tickets have really short-term SLAs and are often urgent, AWS was a challenging and interesting work environment, and for the the first year it everything was very novel. However, when I progressed in my in career towards more of a DevOps role, I started working somewhere which practiced two week sprints for everything - which was a total disaster. Kanban worked a good bit better, but no matter where I worked - the novelty, interest, and challenge of the work eventually wore off - and relying on crunch time to motivate myself was causing burnout. I did think the consequence of guilt or shame from disappointing my teammates was a motivator and felt stress related to that. But in truth, that feeling was something that I mostly felt after I had forgot to do something or ran out of time - and not something that drove me to get work done. So now I'm just leaning in to the whole thing, risks be damned. I left a pretty cushy remote-work salary job to build a startup, and I've started doing some freelance work on the side for extra income. I pick what I work on, so I'm super interested, I'm challenged frequently, it's novel (for now) and the freelance stuff is urgent because I don't get paid til I deliver. For stuff that is boring and executive functioning related (paying bills, scheduling meetings) - I try to automate as much as possible and be sure notifications for things go to both me and my non-ADHD co-founder who can nag me if I miss something. If I see a lot of success, I would like to pay a personal assistant or secretary to keep things organized / handle boring communications on my behalf. I spent a few years working for an executive who clearly had ADHD, and having an assistant was incredibly helpful to him. I'm aware this could all crash and burn - but my daily needs are being met and I'm enjoying my life a lot more. It does feel like I'm working smarter. Though I am technically working harder too.

asiachick 6y ago

I clicked through to one of those articles where it soon brings up "Ego Depletion" which AFAIK has been debunked.

zoozla 6y ago
It was debunked and reaffirmed within a narrower context and in general is a pretty controversial concept. Many people however have the personal experience of a limit to their willpower and that's what I'm referring to in the article. I'll actually edit it to remove the reference to Ego Depletion, thanks for poking me.

ghostbrainalpha 6y ago

How do you feel that your negative mental state is improving your performance? I had every problem you describe, and it leads to horrible procrastination. I don't think I would be employable at all without my anti-anxiety medication.

a123b456c 6y ago

For me, the first step was to consciously select meaningful values. That helped me to know what I should do and what I should not do. The second step was weekly self-assessments regarding how well my actions matched my values. It didn't take long to meaningfully and permanently improve my unconscious behaviors.

wh1t3n01s3 6y ago

The best way to overcome this is to take a sabbath year and if you can and if you like, to travel around the world. Or to take on something tou wanted to do for a long time. This helps to clear the mind and break the vicious cicles. Only my opinion based on personal experience

LostTrackHowM 6y ago

My question is how do you solve/amend this? Don't have just one most important/critical thing your life, like your professional life for example. Very serious advice, go outside and exercise. Find a friendly real life community to be part of. Fans of movies, fans of some sport, fans of science, anything, just any group of real people that you share sami-regular or regular friendly time with. Human beings are not made to be alone, regardless of how introverted they are. They are not made to be isolated. They are not made to have little to no physical exercise. We are however made to become easly obsessed to get the job done, so make sure you have more than one fun challenge to become obsessed with.

thewarrior 6y ago
Completely agree but covid has completely messed this up. It just makes all this so much more difficult.

forgotmypw17 6y ago

There's discipline and habits, which are important. Then there is motivation... For me, the biggest improvement in motivation came from asking myself questions: What do I really want to be working on and would enjoy working on? Lucky for me, I already had experience when I was young writing software for myself and others which made it easier to do more things on the computer. I stayed up all day and all night, focused, motivated, and productive. I was not motivated by money, deadlines, nor having to have a roof over my head and pay insurance, nor wanting to prove myself to anyone. I was just coding, and all I needed was some sweetened black tea in large quantities... Another question I asked myself was, what does the world need right now, which would make it a better place, that no one else can provide except me? This one is not as easy to answer, and the answer may not be the same today as it was yesterday. But if you keep asking yourself this question and pondering the answer, something will come of it. Another question you may want to ask yourself and ponder on the answer: What am I better at than anyone else in the world, and how can I help others using it?