4 ms·

Look I don't mind that defence. But can we like all get such good defence. Where do I sign up or who to vote for so every American citizen gets a legal represe

by timavr 6y ago

Look I don't mind that defence. But can we like all get such good defence. Where do I sign up or who to vote for so every American citizen gets a legal representation like this. Normally if you defraud somebody, you are going to prison for a long, long time very very quickly.

VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
Not sure I understand. Any defendant could claim this defense and get psychologically evaluated.
- throwaway2048 6y ago
  Good luck if you don't have the money for a good lawyer
  - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
    you know the public defender legally has to do what you say right. you can insist on this psychological defense and they have no choice but to put it forward even if they think you're an idiot
    - xenihn 6y ago
      what do you do when your public defender doesn't do what you tell them to do and you have no money?
      - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
        then you file a grievance with the court and you get a new trial
    - filmgirlcw 6y ago
      Of course. But how successful is that argument going to be when the public defender is juggling a dozen cases or more at once, meets with the defendant a handful of times before trial (if you’re lucky you can talk to a paralegal), and doesn’t have the resources of either time or money to dedicate to your case? Putting forward the defense is one thing. Crafting a compelling argument, writing an amazing brief that cites past case law and/or is persuasive enough to argue how something fits the required statues, and obtaining the best expert witnesses to bolster the argument is something else entirely.
    - Fezzik 6y ago
      The amount of nonsense spewed about the legal system here on HN is sort of astonishing. A PD has absolutely no ethical or legal obligation to do anything of what a defendant says except in regards to the defendant testifying - you can advise your client not to testify, but they have a right to. Otherwise the PD, or any attorney for that matter, decides what evidence to use, what witnesses to call, and what the theory of the case is. And yes, I am attorney. No, this is not legal advice. Edit: apologies for the harsh intro tone. I had a long day of wrestling with disagreeable judges.
      - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
        This is false. If the defendant feels they are being deprived of their right to adequate representation they can very easily file a grievance with the judge and get a new pd. In a case like this ignoring important evidence like psychological trauma would be grounds for the judge to replace the clients representation. So no, the public defender can't just ignore what their client wants with regard to how to defend their case.
        phaus 6y ago
        >This is false. No its not. You are moving the goalposts. Obviously people can hire whatever lawyer they can afford and potentially change lawyers if they have a valid grievance that a judge agrees is a reason to allow it. They can also opt to attempt to defend themselves. In either case, the judge would probably tell you that its an incredibly stupid decision that you should reconsider in a very kind attempt to prevent you from ruining your life. There's a significant difference between "I can make my lawyer do whatever I want them to do because the law says they have to" and "I can get a new lawyer if my current lawyer doesn't agree with me."
        VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
        If a public defender demonstrates a pattern of failing to provide adequate representation then they can be reprimanded by the court which carries both a legal and ethical consequence. So the point about the attorney not being legally or ethically required to represent the client as they wish is simply false.
- save_ferris 6y ago
  It takes a whole lot of money to retain an attorney that can craft a solid case around an argument like this.
save_ferris 6y ago
> Where do I sign up or who to vote for so every American citizen gets a legal representation like this. The legal system is built by the rich, for the rich. If money wasn't so powerful in systems like this, people wouldn't pursue it with the vigor that they do.
filmgirlcw 6y ago
When you hire the best lawyers money can buy or when your case is high-profile enough that the best lawyers money can buy will do it for free for exposure. The sad reality is that not every American will ever get legal representation like this. Even well-off Americans won’t get a defense like this.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
abiogenesis 6y ago
So the more you steal the better legal representation you can buy. The corollary is that your sentence and the seriousness of your crime are reversely correlated. It's a win-win but both wins are for the same person.
- rv-de 6y ago
  Seems like that. Generally speaking a soft criminal will go down fast - either being caught because he didn't get rid of that witness or being whacked by some psychopath. But if you are ruthless and amass as much money and power as you can as fast as possible by any means necessary then you have a good chance of buying yourself out of any trouble you find yourself in. Also people will be more afraid of you and help you rewrite history - so you end up as some nobleman if you're lucky.

by timavr 6y ago

VWWHFSfQ 6y ago

Not sure I understand. Any defendant could claim this defense and get psychologically evaluated.

throwaway2048 6y ago
Good luck if you don't have the money for a good lawyer
- VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
  you know the public defender legally has to do what you say right. you can insist on this psychological defense and they have no choice but to put it forward even if they think you're an idiot
  - xenihn 6y ago
    what do you do when your public defender doesn't do what you tell them to do and you have no money?
    - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
      then you file a grievance with the court and you get a new trial
  - filmgirlcw 6y ago
    Of course. But how successful is that argument going to be when the public defender is juggling a dozen cases or more at once, meets with the defendant a handful of times before trial (if you’re lucky you can talk to a paralegal), and doesn’t have the resources of either time or money to dedicate to your case? Putting forward the defense is one thing. Crafting a compelling argument, writing an amazing brief that cites past case law and/or is persuasive enough to argue how something fits the required statues, and obtaining the best expert witnesses to bolster the argument is something else entirely.
  - Fezzik 6y ago
    The amount of nonsense spewed about the legal system here on HN is sort of astonishing. A PD has absolutely no ethical or legal obligation to do anything of what a defendant says except in regards to the defendant testifying - you can advise your client not to testify, but they have a right to. Otherwise the PD, or any attorney for that matter, decides what evidence to use, what witnesses to call, and what the theory of the case is. And yes, I am attorney. No, this is not legal advice. Edit: apologies for the harsh intro tone. I had a long day of wrestling with disagreeable judges.
    - VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
      This is false. If the defendant feels they are being deprived of their right to adequate representation they can very easily file a grievance with the judge and get a new pd. In a case like this ignoring important evidence like psychological trauma would be grounds for the judge to replace the clients representation. So no, the public defender can't just ignore what their client wants with regard to how to defend their case.
      - phaus 6y ago
        >This is false. No its not. You are moving the goalposts. Obviously people can hire whatever lawyer they can afford and potentially change lawyers if they have a valid grievance that a judge agrees is a reason to allow it. They can also opt to attempt to defend themselves. In either case, the judge would probably tell you that its an incredibly stupid decision that you should reconsider in a very kind attempt to prevent you from ruining your life. There's a significant difference between "I can make my lawyer do whatever I want them to do because the law says they have to" and "I can get a new lawyer if my current lawyer doesn't agree with me."
        VWWHFSfQ 6y ago
        If a public defender demonstrates a pattern of failing to provide adequate representation then they can be reprimanded by the court which carries both a legal and ethical consequence. So the point about the attorney not being legally or ethically required to represent the client as they wish is simply false.
save_ferris 6y ago
It takes a whole lot of money to retain an attorney that can craft a solid case around an argument like this.

save_ferris 6y ago

> Where do I sign up or who to vote for so every American citizen gets a legal representation like this. The legal system is built by the rich, for the rich. If money wasn't so powerful in systems like this, people wouldn't pursue it with the vigor that they do.

filmgirlcw 6y ago

When you hire the best lawyers money can buy or when your case is high-profile enough that the best lawyers money can buy will do it for free for exposure. The sad reality is that not every American will ever get legal representation like this. Even well-off Americans won’t get a defense like this.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

abiogenesis 6y ago

So the more you steal the better legal representation you can buy. The corollary is that your sentence and the seriousness of your crime are reversely correlated. It's a win-win but both wins are for the same person.

rv-de 6y ago
Seems like that. Generally speaking a soft criminal will go down fast - either being caught because he didn't get rid of that witness or being whacked by some psychopath. But if you are ruthless and amass as much money and power as you can as fast as possible by any means necessary then you have a good chance of buying yourself out of any trouble you find yourself in. Also people will be more afraid of you and help you rewrite history - so you end up as some nobleman if you're lucky.