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Its the first tech social app i.e. Facebook, MySpace and the like from China, a country that is not America. That is all there is to it. America realizes that C

by erklik 6y ago

Its the first tech social app i.e. Facebook, MySpace and the like from China, a country that is not America. That is all there is to it. America realizes that China is catching up, and considering there are a billion Chinese, it is inevitable that China will be a foremost power that either competes with or simply overtakes America. The current foremost power, America, doesn't like that. At the very least, this whole thing has made clear that principles that America repeatedly espouses are forgotten quite quickly when it wants to retain power.

0xy 6y ago
Why should principles be given to countries that do not reciprocate? All major American tech companies are banished from China, and the only ones left are ones who agreed to transfer IP to be stolen by the CCP.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  The US never had any such principles. Whenever any country competes with American cash-cows, the US "discovers" a reason to ban them. TikTok is not the first one, see what happened with Bombardier for an example closer to home. Or, when Canada was threatening the US superiority in engine tech, after which the US government threatened to embargo Canada from avionics if they proceeded with the Arrow program. They do the same with the Swedish Gripen, they put an embargo on their avionics if Sweden sells them to a country which is also considering the F-35. American tech compamies are banned from China unless they store data on Chinese servers and comply with Chinese law; there is no need to transfer IP. Do you think Google would have transfered Search IP under Project Dragonfly? Do you think Facebook has given their Ad IP?. Why wouldn't the US use the same standard of requiring full compliance with US law as enforced by a liaison and data being on US soil? Because the question isn't of reciprocity, it is of dominance. That's why TikTok was banned under the Joker of "National Security", not under any other standard. The US is simply scared of losing it's advantage in tech to China. Which of course will likely happen anyways. In any case, the average person isn't harmed by TikTok anymore and indeed less so than Facebook.
  - 0xy 6y ago
    >there is no need to transfer IP Provably false. [1] >comply with Chinese law Chinese law requires companies to hand over root access and data, and also effectively forbids E2E encryption. This is IP transfer. [2] >The US is simply scared of losing it's advantage in tech to China The US has several tech companies with market caps more than double Tik Tok. >National Security There's evidence Tik Tok has been promoting CCP propaganda. [3] >the average person isn't harmed by TikTok anymore and indeed less so than Facebook Depends if you trust your data with the same government who regularly disappears journalists, I guess. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/forced-tech-transfers-are-on-the-rise-in-china-european-firms-say-11558344240 https://www.wsj.com/articles/forced-tech-transfers-are-on-th... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Internet_Security_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Internet_Security_Law [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOlu624glKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOlu624glKw
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      >Chinese law requires companies to hand over root access and data, and also effectively forbids E2E encryption. This is IP transfer. [2] By that standard the US also requires IP transfer. Have you already forgotten about PRISM? >The US has several tech companies with market caps more than double Tik Tok. Sure, but if China continues in this trajectory then it won't be for long >Depends if you trust your data with the same government who regularly disappears journalists, I guess. Depends if you trust your data with the same government who regularly fabricates evidence as an excuse to go and kill a million or so people every once in a while. Or the one that regularly assassinates or threatens to assassinate activists, I guess. The chance of your own government killing you is at least four or five orders of magnitude higher than that of China killing you, same for most other metrics of harm. Can't say the same if you're a foreigner with the US government, though! That being said, US control of the press is much more sophisticated, so there is really no need to kill any American journalists except in exceptional cases. But don't delude yourself, if it ever came to that there would be no hesitation - look at what the USG did to Fred Hampton of Gary Webb, or what they tried to do with Martin Luther King. >There's evidence Tik Tok has been promoting CCP propaganda. [3] There's a difference between people on TikTok defending China and TikTok conspiring to push Chinese propaganda. There is evidence for the first one, and absolutely no evidence of the latter. There's people who defend China and push propaganda on Facebook and Instagram too, if you go looking for them. And there's also American propaganda on TikTok.
- erklik 6y ago
  > Why should principles be given to countries that do not reciprocate? I don't think Principles are really given. You have principles and you can abide by them. > All major American tech companies are banished from China Nope. They aren't banishing anyone. They simply have laws that make it difficult for them to work in China. What law was TikTok not following that they are being forced to sell to a US company? Its essentially extortion. If the US makes a law, i.e. all foreign-owned companies must store data on US soil or whatever else the issue with TikTok is, then that would actually fit. Rather the administration is forcing Bytedance to sell to a US company i.e. give it to us or we will kill it.

by erklik 6y ago

0xy 6y ago

Why should principles be given to countries that do not reciprocate? All major American tech companies are banished from China, and the only ones left are ones who agreed to transfer IP to be stolen by the CCP.

sudosysgen 6y ago
The US never had any such principles. Whenever any country competes with American cash-cows, the US "discovers" a reason to ban them. TikTok is not the first one, see what happened with Bombardier for an example closer to home. Or, when Canada was threatening the US superiority in engine tech, after which the US government threatened to embargo Canada from avionics if they proceeded with the Arrow program. They do the same with the Swedish Gripen, they put an embargo on their avionics if Sweden sells them to a country which is also considering the F-35. American tech compamies are banned from China unless they store data on Chinese servers and comply with Chinese law; there is no need to transfer IP. Do you think Google would have transfered Search IP under Project Dragonfly? Do you think Facebook has given their Ad IP?. Why wouldn't the US use the same standard of requiring full compliance with US law as enforced by a liaison and data being on US soil? Because the question isn't of reciprocity, it is of dominance. That's why TikTok was banned under the Joker of "National Security", not under any other standard. The US is simply scared of losing it's advantage in tech to China. Which of course will likely happen anyways. In any case, the average person isn't harmed by TikTok anymore and indeed less so than Facebook.
- 0xy 6y ago
  >there is no need to transfer IP Provably false. [1] >comply with Chinese law Chinese law requires companies to hand over root access and data, and also effectively forbids E2E encryption. This is IP transfer. [2] >The US is simply scared of losing it's advantage in tech to China The US has several tech companies with market caps more than double Tik Tok. >National Security There's evidence Tik Tok has been promoting CCP propaganda. [3] >the average person isn't harmed by TikTok anymore and indeed less so than Facebook Depends if you trust your data with the same government who regularly disappears journalists, I guess. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/forced-tech-transfers-are-on-the-rise-in-china-european-firms-say-11558344240 https://www.wsj.com/articles/forced-tech-transfers-are-on-th... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Internet_Security_Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Internet_Security_Law [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOlu624glKw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOlu624glKw
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    >Chinese law requires companies to hand over root access and data, and also effectively forbids E2E encryption. This is IP transfer. [2] By that standard the US also requires IP transfer. Have you already forgotten about PRISM? >The US has several tech companies with market caps more than double Tik Tok. Sure, but if China continues in this trajectory then it won't be for long >Depends if you trust your data with the same government who regularly disappears journalists, I guess. Depends if you trust your data with the same government who regularly fabricates evidence as an excuse to go and kill a million or so people every once in a while. Or the one that regularly assassinates or threatens to assassinate activists, I guess. The chance of your own government killing you is at least four or five orders of magnitude higher than that of China killing you, same for most other metrics of harm. Can't say the same if you're a foreigner with the US government, though! That being said, US control of the press is much more sophisticated, so there is really no need to kill any American journalists except in exceptional cases. But don't delude yourself, if it ever came to that there would be no hesitation - look at what the USG did to Fred Hampton of Gary Webb, or what they tried to do with Martin Luther King. >There's evidence Tik Tok has been promoting CCP propaganda. [3] There's a difference between people on TikTok defending China and TikTok conspiring to push Chinese propaganda. There is evidence for the first one, and absolutely no evidence of the latter. There's people who defend China and push propaganda on Facebook and Instagram too, if you go looking for them. And there's also American propaganda on TikTok.
erklik 6y ago
> Why should principles be given to countries that do not reciprocate? I don't think Principles are really given. You have principles and you can abide by them. > All major American tech companies are banished from China Nope. They aren't banishing anyone. They simply have laws that make it difficult for them to work in China. What law was TikTok not following that they are being forced to sell to a US company? Its essentially extortion. If the US makes a law, i.e. all foreign-owned companies must store data on US soil or whatever else the issue with TikTok is, then that would actually fit. Rather the administration is forcing Bytedance to sell to a US company i.e. give it to us or we will kill it.