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I don’t know much about Interactive Brokers, but compare this fine with the measly fine (13k) issued to Smithfield for workplace safety violations which lead to

I don’t know much about Interactive Brokers, but compare this fine with the measly fine (13k) issued to Smithfield for workplace safety violations which lead to thousands of cases of covid and 4 employee deaths. Why are the fines for financial noncompliance like this orders of magnitude higher than fines for killing people?

deleted 6y ago
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_jal 6y ago
Isn't that a bit of a self-answering question? "We" value capital more than workers. The law reflects that.
- dls2016 6y ago
  See also: jail time for shoplifting vs. wage theft.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  In general, financial compliance laws and regulations ensure that workers get paid and everything works. They're not limited to, like, online brokers. Lowering the fines would not improve safety.
  - _jal 6y ago
    > Lowering the fines would not improve safety. If someone made that claim, it wasn't me. It is not clear to me what your argument is or whom you're arguing with. Is the claim that financial fraud or KYC laws are designed with worker protection in mind? That's funny, but I expect you're just making a specific form of "laws support predictable outcomes..." as a hook.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - perl4ever 6y ago
      For the sake of argument, I think that in order to compare the dollar amounts and assume that's the "worth" of the infraction, then perhaps it is assuming how much deterrence there is per dollar. Is it plausible that abstract financial violations cost more to deter, because people don't have instinctive aversion to them? I don't see what the relative amount has to do with anything. The fines for worker safety should maybe be higher, but there's no particular relationship to financial regulations. If you think that "real people weren't hurt" by financial violations, then does that mean the penalty should be zero?
pmichaud 6y ago
I think it's mostly the same reason sales people get paid a lot. It's that the calculation is straightforward and obvious, mostly because it never requires an exchange between conceptually different values. Adding translation steps like "lives lost" => USD introduces a lot of conflict and ambiguity. So we tend to fail at it.
Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
Both types of crimes are rarely investigated and the investigators grossly underfunded. Wage theft and financial crimes at scale should be automatic jail time, ankle monitors, barred from positions of authority, urinalysis, and seizures of all assets involved in or tainted by the crimes. I have zero patience for white collar criminals walking free bragging about their exploits. We lock up people for decades for holding plants but I can steal decades of wages from my staff and get weekend jail, a 1% fine or probation? Ridiculous. A true crime against humanity.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

_jal 6y ago

Isn't that a bit of a self-answering question? "We" value capital more than workers. The law reflects that.

dls2016 6y ago
See also: jail time for shoplifting vs. wage theft.
perl4ever 6y ago
In general, financial compliance laws and regulations ensure that workers get paid and everything works. They're not limited to, like, online brokers. Lowering the fines would not improve safety.
- _jal 6y ago
  > Lowering the fines would not improve safety. If someone made that claim, it wasn't me. It is not clear to me what your argument is or whom you're arguing with. Is the claim that financial fraud or KYC laws are designed with worker protection in mind? That's funny, but I expect you're just making a specific form of "laws support predictable outcomes..." as a hook.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    For the sake of argument, I think that in order to compare the dollar amounts and assume that's the "worth" of the infraction, then perhaps it is assuming how much deterrence there is per dollar. Is it plausible that abstract financial violations cost more to deter, because people don't have instinctive aversion to them? I don't see what the relative amount has to do with anything. The fines for worker safety should maybe be higher, but there's no particular relationship to financial regulations. If you think that "real people weren't hurt" by financial violations, then does that mean the penalty should be zero?

pmichaud 6y ago

I think it's mostly the same reason sales people get paid a lot. It's that the calculation is straightforward and obvious, mostly because it never requires an exchange between conceptually different values. Adding translation steps like "lives lost" => USD introduces a lot of conflict and ambiguity. So we tend to fail at it.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago

Both types of crimes are rarely investigated and the investigators grossly underfunded. Wage theft and financial crimes at scale should be automatic jail time, ankle monitors, barred from positions of authority, urinalysis, and seizures of all assets involved in or tainted by the crimes. I have zero patience for white collar criminals walking free bragging about their exploits. We lock up people for decades for holding plants but I can steal decades of wages from my staff and get weekend jail, a 1% fine or probation? Ridiculous. A true crime against humanity.