4 ms·

In one of Paul Graham's early essays [1], he talks about cities and ambition, and how each city sends a message to its inhabitants by virtue of the cluster of p

by wenc 6y ago

In one of Paul Graham's early essays [1], he talks about cities and ambition, and how each city sends a message to its inhabitants by virtue of the cluster of people who live there or aspire to be there (and have ended up there). I'm just wondering: what is Denver's message? Is it similar to Utah's where a slew of successful software companies got started? [2] Or has the city's message become unimportant in the era of remote work? I ask because it is often the case in history that great work is done in places that are the least comfortable. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/cities.html http://www.paulgraham.com/cities.html [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Slopes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Slopes

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>I'm just wondering: what is Denver's message "I made my money, screw you" It's like the Florida or Vermont of the west only it's SV types who cash out and move there to raise kids or retire instead of the Wall St crowd.
- malandrew 6y ago
  A lot of us aren't against taxes. We're against unreasonable levels of taxation and governance that squanders the taxes it does collect. California is the taxation equivalent of a loan shark. I now live in a state where I pay lower taxes and that provides more and better services than California. In fact, I can't think of a single thing California does better. I'm happy to pay my taxes here as this state's government does a much better job with the tax revenue they do collect. Sadly, as more Californians come to my state, they are supporting a lot of the same bad policy decisions that were well-intentioned but ultimately ended up becoming problematic in California.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    I didn't say anything about taxes and FWIW I agree with you. I meant it more of a "and now I'm coming here to raise your cost of living and tell you how to do things" sort of way. Kinda funny (in a sad sort of way) that in a thread about California people assume that "I've made my money, screw you" is about dodging taxes because that implies things about where the Overton window is in CA and is illustrative about why people might not like a bunch of Californians with enough money to matter (the last part being key) showing up over a couple decades.
  - 205guy 6y ago
    We understand, and it's clearly about politics. After all, taxation levels and government spending are nothing if not political. And that's fine, everyone is free to move around and find the place that works for them given their preferences and constraints. Everyone is better off if they find a place where they are happy. However, you can't deny or bemoan the freedom of others to do the same as you did, and to be political in the same way.
chrisco255 6y ago
Great essay. I would say the game has certainly changed quite a bit with regards to remote work. I still don't feel the same energy working remote as I do in a room filled with people passionate about solving an exciting problem (i.e. a traditional startup). I think remote favors building "bazaar-type" software but not "cathedral-type" software or technology. We're currently in a big state of flux. The character of many cities is shifting. Many folks are betting that NYC will not recover from this remote-working trend and economic downturn, for example. Are the skeptics right, or is this a short-term bump in the road? Millions are moving from certain states and cities right now. How will this migration shape the character of destination cities like Denver? I'd say that's the more important question to speculate on rather than look back at what Denver has been in the past. I do think when you move to a place, it shapes you and you in turn shape it. It's a give and a take.
vikramkr 6y ago
Colorado in general has a ton of defense contractors. It's probably easier to find talent that has the necessary clearances and experience working with government agencies there versus in the bay.

by wenc 6y ago

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

>I'm just wondering: what is Denver's message "I made my money, screw you" It's like the Florida or Vermont of the west only it's SV types who cash out and move there to raise kids or retire instead of the Wall St crowd.

malandrew 6y ago
A lot of us aren't against taxes. We're against unreasonable levels of taxation and governance that squanders the taxes it does collect. California is the taxation equivalent of a loan shark. I now live in a state where I pay lower taxes and that provides more and better services than California. In fact, I can't think of a single thing California does better. I'm happy to pay my taxes here as this state's government does a much better job with the tax revenue they do collect. Sadly, as more Californians come to my state, they are supporting a lot of the same bad policy decisions that were well-intentioned but ultimately ended up becoming problematic in California.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  I didn't say anything about taxes and FWIW I agree with you. I meant it more of a "and now I'm coming here to raise your cost of living and tell you how to do things" sort of way. Kinda funny (in a sad sort of way) that in a thread about California people assume that "I've made my money, screw you" is about dodging taxes because that implies things about where the Overton window is in CA and is illustrative about why people might not like a bunch of Californians with enough money to matter (the last part being key) showing up over a couple decades.
- 205guy 6y ago
  We understand, and it's clearly about politics. After all, taxation levels and government spending are nothing if not political. And that's fine, everyone is free to move around and find the place that works for them given their preferences and constraints. Everyone is better off if they find a place where they are happy. However, you can't deny or bemoan the freedom of others to do the same as you did, and to be political in the same way.

chrisco255 6y ago

Great essay. I would say the game has certainly changed quite a bit with regards to remote work. I still don't feel the same energy working remote as I do in a room filled with people passionate about solving an exciting problem (i.e. a traditional startup). I think remote favors building "bazaar-type" software but not "cathedral-type" software or technology. We're currently in a big state of flux. The character of many cities is shifting. Many folks are betting that NYC will not recover from this remote-working trend and economic downturn, for example. Are the skeptics right, or is this a short-term bump in the road? Millions are moving from certain states and cities right now. How will this migration shape the character of destination cities like Denver? I'd say that's the more important question to speculate on rather than look back at what Denver has been in the past. I do think when you move to a place, it shapes you and you in turn shape it. It's a give and a take.

vikramkr 6y ago

Colorado in general has a ton of defense contractors. It's probably easier to find talent that has the necessary clearances and experience working with government agencies there versus in the bay.