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> My workaround was to coach non-technical managers to pick up clues from the person's peers. If you privately ask 3 random team members to estimate tasks and 1

> My workaround was to coach non-technical managers to pick up clues from the person's peers. If you privately ask 3 random team members to estimate tasks and 1 person constantly gives estimates 10x longer than anyone else, that person should be watched closely for performance issues. So I had a boss who would call a group meeting, bring up a problem that needs to be solved, and ask people who can do it. One engineer would explain that this is a research-level AI problem that would take years to solve, another engineer would say he's going to have some time to hack on it later in the week, and a third would say that he can pull an all-nighter tonight and solve it. So the manager would pat himself on the back for a job well done. He created a spirit of healthy competition in the team, he exposed the slacker (the first engineer) for what he is, and he squeezed the third engineer for all he got. A year later, the team would be back in the same place, with the manager calling a meeting and bringing up the same problem, which as it turns out the users are still suffering from and higher-ups in management are pestering him about again.

stripline 6y ago
> A year later, the team would be back in the same place, with the manager calling a meeting and bringing up the same problem, which as it turns out the users are still suffering from I thought the third engineer pulled an all-nighter to solve it?
- watwut 6y ago
  Cause the all night hero did not actually solved the issue, just made it less visible for release checklist purpose. Which is not the same as fixing it for users who kept complaining.
- saberdancer 6y ago
  I am guessing that the first engineer was right. Usually there is not one solution to the problem and judging who's the slacker by estimates might be wrong. You can usually hack something up quick, but making a strong and lasting solution requires more time.
  - RandoHolmes 6y ago
    Judging who the slacker is by estimates is wrong, period. There's a habit of technical folks to come to conclusions they shouldn't, and this is a perfect example. It generally manifests itself in interviews where the technical interviewer will come to conclusions that don't necessarily follow, only in this case it's not in an interview, but with respect to fellow co-workers. I mean, you can see the hubris in the poster, who would have you believe that they're somehow "training" their management to "spot poor co-workers". Yeah, ok.... sure you are. Because managers are like monkeys apparently?
vanusa 6y ago
So the manager exposed the slacker (the first engineer) for what he is, and he squeezed the third engineer for all he got. That's some dark humor, there. But in terms of "exposing" how many managers in the industry think -- so true, so very true.

stripline 6y ago

> A year later, the team would be back in the same place, with the manager calling a meeting and bringing up the same problem, which as it turns out the users are still suffering from I thought the third engineer pulled an all-nighter to solve it?

watwut 6y ago
Cause the all night hero did not actually solved the issue, just made it less visible for release checklist purpose. Which is not the same as fixing it for users who kept complaining.
saberdancer 6y ago
I am guessing that the first engineer was right. Usually there is not one solution to the problem and judging who's the slacker by estimates might be wrong. You can usually hack something up quick, but making a strong and lasting solution requires more time.
- RandoHolmes 6y ago
  Judging who the slacker is by estimates is wrong, period. There's a habit of technical folks to come to conclusions they shouldn't, and this is a perfect example. It generally manifests itself in interviews where the technical interviewer will come to conclusions that don't necessarily follow, only in this case it's not in an interview, but with respect to fellow co-workers. I mean, you can see the hubris in the poster, who would have you believe that they're somehow "training" their management to "spot poor co-workers". Yeah, ok.... sure you are. Because managers are like monkeys apparently?

vanusa 6y ago

So the manager exposed the slacker (the first engineer) for what he is, and he squeezed the third engineer for all he got. That's some dark humor, there. But in terms of "exposing" how many managers in the industry think -- so true, so very true.