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This is so completely wrong I can't believe I'm responding to it. We are not past carrying capacity. Population control is some ecofascist bullshit.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago
Yes. Since you don’t believe that we are past carrying capacity, you shouldn’t be responding to this.
jelliclesfarm 6y ago
I feel like I need to address the ‘ecofascist bullshit’ gem. Fascism promoted eugenics. Population control through responsible procreation is not eugenics. It is an incentive to make sure ones children and future generation has the best possible chance to thrive and flourish along with everyone else of our species without just a few gene pools monopolizing all the resources. The 1/2 surviving child/per person is derived from rational thought and evaluation of our planet’s existing resources. Children are expensive and everyone pays for all the children in one way or another. It’s not always about the money. When we have a planet that doesn’t expand and most of our resources are not renewable, it’s a zero sum game. Someone in the gene pool who spends all their life making a dozen babies benefits proportionally more than someone who has 1-2 children. Also..this need to keep having babies is a scam perpetuated by organized religions of all types because the state was always funded by religion. And more subscribers means more power. That’s the kind of bullshit that needs to be stopped in its tracks. Have a nice day!
- joycian 6y ago
  I don't know if it's useful to see it as a zero sum game. The sun is beaming practically unlimited energy out towards us (and a whole lot more that doesn't reach Earth but is still available eventually). Even if it is zero sum: if we all stopped eating meat, we could pretty easily sustain ourselves. Putting it on population size instead of how that population behaves is not useful and frankly fatalist.
  - armandhammer 6y ago
    There's more than just food energy, though. Lots of things that we rely on for modern civilization and survival are finite -- the most obvious being petroleum / gas and various minerals + metals. Additionally, retrieving these resources is extremely environmentally destructive in ways which take centuries or millennia to recover from (we've already extracted the locations where getting at this stuff was easy and less destructive). It's a lose/lose situation.
FooBarBizBazz 6y ago
Population voluntarily goes down with increased education and reproductive rights for women. You don't need something heavy-handed. You just need feminism. Get the fertility rate down to something like 0.9 and just wait. You don't need to deny the facts because of some fringe-right boogeyman. There really are too many people. But there are perfectly-good solutions no more extreme than the center-left.
TomSwirly 6y ago
> This is so completely wrong I can't believe I'm responding to it. And yet you provide no logical refutation. > We are not past carrying capacity. Because... you say so? > Population control is some ecofascist bullshit. Because... you say so? "Fascist" doesn't mean "someone told me what to do." Not everything you don't like is "fascist". The environmental movement even at its worse doesn't encourage nationalism, or venerate the military or industry, promote sexism, have an obsession with national security. - it simply has zero connection to fascism. --- Population increases exponentially, and individual consumption increases exponentially. No one wants to stop having kids. No one wants to stop consumption. No one wants people to tell them what to do. So how is society going to survive? The answer: it won't. The exponential growth will never stop until it all collapses. People will scream "fascism" at any attempt to stop any of this exponential growth... and we will devastate the ecosystem for all time to come.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago

Yes. Since you don’t believe that we are past carrying capacity, you shouldn’t be responding to this.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago

I feel like I need to address the ‘ecofascist bullshit’ gem. Fascism promoted eugenics. Population control through responsible procreation is not eugenics. It is an incentive to make sure ones children and future generation has the best possible chance to thrive and flourish along with everyone else of our species without just a few gene pools monopolizing all the resources. The 1/2 surviving child/per person is derived from rational thought and evaluation of our planet’s existing resources. Children are expensive and everyone pays for all the children in one way or another. It’s not always about the money. When we have a planet that doesn’t expand and most of our resources are not renewable, it’s a zero sum game. Someone in the gene pool who spends all their life making a dozen babies benefits proportionally more than someone who has 1-2 children. Also..this need to keep having babies is a scam perpetuated by organized religions of all types because the state was always funded by religion. And more subscribers means more power. That’s the kind of bullshit that needs to be stopped in its tracks. Have a nice day!

joycian 6y ago
I don't know if it's useful to see it as a zero sum game. The sun is beaming practically unlimited energy out towards us (and a whole lot more that doesn't reach Earth but is still available eventually). Even if it is zero sum: if we all stopped eating meat, we could pretty easily sustain ourselves. Putting it on population size instead of how that population behaves is not useful and frankly fatalist.
- armandhammer 6y ago
  There's more than just food energy, though. Lots of things that we rely on for modern civilization and survival are finite -- the most obvious being petroleum / gas and various minerals + metals. Additionally, retrieving these resources is extremely environmentally destructive in ways which take centuries or millennia to recover from (we've already extracted the locations where getting at this stuff was easy and less destructive). It's a lose/lose situation.

FooBarBizBazz 6y ago

Population voluntarily goes down with increased education and reproductive rights for women. You don't need something heavy-handed. You just need feminism. Get the fertility rate down to something like 0.9 and just wait. You don't need to deny the facts because of some fringe-right boogeyman. There really are too many people. But there are perfectly-good solutions no more extreme than the center-left.

TomSwirly 6y ago

> This is so completely wrong I can't believe I'm responding to it. And yet you provide no logical refutation. > We are not past carrying capacity. Because... you say so? > Population control is some ecofascist bullshit. Because... you say so? "Fascist" doesn't mean "someone told me what to do." Not everything you don't like is "fascist". The environmental movement even at its worse doesn't encourage nationalism, or venerate the military or industry, promote sexism, have an obsession with national security. - it simply has zero connection to fascism. --- Population increases exponentially, and individual consumption increases exponentially. No one wants to stop having kids. No one wants to stop consumption. No one wants people to tell them what to do. So how is society going to survive? The answer: it won't. The exponential growth will never stop until it all collapses. People will scream "fascism" at any attempt to stop any of this exponential growth... and we will devastate the ecosystem for all time to come.