3 ms·

Yep, as expected, they begin to care once it hits their bottom line.

PaulHoule 6y ago
1. They have mortgages in places like California that are burning up. 2. Note the CFTC and "banks" would be involved in trading of carbon credits so that's another interest they have in a solution. I have to admit that I'm skeptical of carbon credits because they will be gamed by Enron-style traders and diverted towards things that look like they work, and away from things that really work. For instance, some people claim you can absorb CO2 by grinding up Olvine rock and spreading it at the beach. Maybe it works. It's hard to measure because it happens over a wide area. If you capture carbon from a fossil fuel power plant or biofuel facility or direct carbon capture you pump CO2 into a well and can measure it going in the same way people measured methane going out. That's for real, rock crushing less so, but if rock crushing appears to be cheaper Wall Street will crush rocks while the Earth burns.
- baq 6y ago
  any system can be gamed and any system will be gamed. but! a system with these two assumptions built into it can still reach its goals. i don't know much about carbon credit proposals or working systems - i'm actually a fan of carbon tax and carbon dividend - but i know one such instance works in the EU and perhaps a different one can be designed to reduce carbon emissions despite being abused.
- darth_avocado 6y ago
  Carbon credits are bullshit, just like additional 10 cents for a plastic shopping bag at grocery stores. Consumers will easily swallow the costs and things will continue as usual, unless of course, carbon credits are actually used towards initiatives that move the entire planet towards sustainability. A decade ago, you could buy these credits to offset your own carbon footprint with the promise that they would be used to support reforestation efforts across the globe. Years later I found out through a friend who would help charities that received those credits, that they would definitely plant trees, but the number advertised on the credits and the actual trees planted were different. Also, no one would take care of the trees for long and only few would survive.
  - ornornor 6y ago
    Or the land is sold later for logging the trees...
  - lovich 6y ago
    Has the 10 cent surcharge on plastic bags not had an affect? When it was implemented in my area I saw most people switch to reusable bags over the course of a month, and many restaurants stopped giving out bags unless they were specifically requested.
    - snowwrestler 6y ago
      The point of charging for plastic bags is not the money, it is to force store employees to ask people how many bags they need (since they are required by law to charge for it). Many customers, with the most basic of reminders, will choose to skip the bag, or bring their own.
dpflan 6y ago
Sadly it is true, but one would think that longer term perspective would have made these conclusions sooner and allow better planning for how to deal with the financial costs.
CardenB 6y ago
That's ok, as long as something gets done. If their bottom line incentivizes action, then the economy is structured well and incentives are aligned. The issue is that their bottom line was not impacted early enough.

1. They have mortgages in places like California that are burning up. 2. Note the CFTC and "banks" would be involved in trading of carbon credits so that's another interest they have in a solution. I have to admit that I'm skeptical of carbon credits because they will be gamed by Enron-style traders and diverted towards things that look like they work, and away from things that really work. For instance, some people claim you can absorb CO2 by grinding up Olvine rock and spreading it at the beach. Maybe it works. It's hard to measure because it happens over a wide area. If you capture carbon from a fossil fuel power plant or biofuel facility or direct carbon capture you pump CO2 into a well and can measure it going in the same way people measured methane going out. That's for real, rock crushing less so, but if rock crushing appears to be cheaper Wall Street will crush rocks while the Earth burns.

baq 6y ago
any system can be gamed and any system will be gamed. but! a system with these two assumptions built into it can still reach its goals. i don't know much about carbon credit proposals or working systems - i'm actually a fan of carbon tax and carbon dividend - but i know one such instance works in the EU and perhaps a different one can be designed to reduce carbon emissions despite being abused.
darth_avocado 6y ago
Carbon credits are bullshit, just like additional 10 cents for a plastic shopping bag at grocery stores. Consumers will easily swallow the costs and things will continue as usual, unless of course, carbon credits are actually used towards initiatives that move the entire planet towards sustainability. A decade ago, you could buy these credits to offset your own carbon footprint with the promise that they would be used to support reforestation efforts across the globe. Years later I found out through a friend who would help charities that received those credits, that they would definitely plant trees, but the number advertised on the credits and the actual trees planted were different. Also, no one would take care of the trees for long and only few would survive.
- ornornor 6y ago
  Or the land is sold later for logging the trees...
- lovich 6y ago
  Has the 10 cent surcharge on plastic bags not had an affect? When it was implemented in my area I saw most people switch to reusable bags over the course of a month, and many restaurants stopped giving out bags unless they were specifically requested.
  - snowwrestler 6y ago
    The point of charging for plastic bags is not the money, it is to force store employees to ask people how many bags they need (since they are required by law to charge for it). Many customers, with the most basic of reminders, will choose to skip the bag, or bring their own.

dpflan 6y ago

Sadly it is true, but one would think that longer term perspective would have made these conclusions sooner and allow better planning for how to deal with the financial costs.

CardenB 6y ago

That's ok, as long as something gets done. If their bottom line incentivizes action, then the economy is structured well and incentives are aligned. The issue is that their bottom line was not impacted early enough.