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Something I am struggling with recently is less am I ok, but more do we as humans deserve to be ok? When I look at the freeways full of cars, streets lined with

Something I am struggling with recently is less am I ok, but more do we as humans deserve to be ok? When I look at the freeways full of cars, streets lined with overflowing garbage cans, homeless encampments, grocery stores with row after row of cheap meat under fluorescent light. Am I supposed to feel ok? It many times feels as though we are a virus decimating our host environment. The constant flood of bad news combined with an inability to be away from the computer ( work), the inability to go outside (California fires) and the inability to go to a different indoor location (coronavirus) has maybe leant power to this very cynical viewpoint. I guess we do not have the power, we are not responsible for the way the world is, and we do not have to bear the guilt for it.

swyx 6y ago
there's a lot of bad in the world, but also keep in mind the Steven Pinker argument that we have progressed a lot compared to human history as well. as for dealing with it - personally i embrace the idea of "keep your circle of concern as small as possible to your circle of influence". practically, it works out to "stop giving a crap" which i know is not responsible en masse. i guess the only thing to do if you feel like you must do something in your lifetime is to run for office.
- jacobedawson 6y ago
  Even though it might be true that we have progressed a lot, our impact has increased exponentially, to the point where 20 million completely irresponsible humans don't have anywhere near the potentially catastrophic effect of 7 billion relatively enlightened humans (with nukes & fossil fuels). I do feel we might 'just make it' if we can organize culturally as well as technologically, but it looks like it's going to be a nailbiter.
- Ma8ee 6y ago
  I certainly don't interpret "keep your circle of concern as small as possible to your circle of influence" as "stop giving a crap". I actually means that you for example should decrease the amount of meat you eat and try to find other means of transportation than car if possible. Each and everyone of us influence the environment in many ways. And even if your influence is small, the total is the sum of all our contributions. If everyone of us just think "it doesn't matter what I do", then we are truly screwed. If most of us instead think "I'm at least doing my part", then we have come a long way already.
  - JadeNB 6y ago
    > I certainly don't interpret "keep your circle of concern as small as possible to your circle of influence" as "stop giving a crap". I actually means that you for example should decrease the amount of meat you eat and try to find other means of transportation than car if possible. Exactly—before trying to solve the world's problems (and getting frustrated because you can't), try to solve the problems closer to home (and get motivated because, if you keep your focus small enough, you can).
- glenda 6y ago
  It sounds like you’re making excuses for the world as it is. The OP is right though. These aren’t things we have to live with just because Steven Pinker said the world is better off now than before... We are in control of our environment to a certain extent and have the capability of transforming it into something other than an isle of cheap meats under florescent lighting. We are capable of ending systemic violence and homelessness, since they are things we collectively allow to exist each day. We can get rid of cars and build more beautiful cities!
  - Diederich 6y ago
    The higher one climbs on a mountain, the further one can see. I think we're capable of seeing how much better we can make things today primarily because of how high we've climbed so far.
  - komali2 6y ago
    Well, we're trying, aren't we? Do we give up because we aren't perfect yet and instead start trying to end the species? I'm not sure the objective of fatalist arguments. "We don't deserve to be ok" ?like, it's nearly impossible to get anything done when not ok (aka depressed). Fatalism will hurt efforts, not help, based on personal experience.
  - ekianjo 6y ago
    > We can get rid of cars and build more beautiful cities! We don't have cars because we love driving and waste hours in traffic or something. They have a purpose and solve problems.
    - Ma8ee 6y ago
      Yes, but most of those problems have other, less wasteful solutions. We don’t have to live sprawled out far away from our workplaces, and we don’t each and every one need to move our own 1500 kg vehicle to get somewhere in urban areas.
      - ekianjo 6y ago
- birksherty 6y ago
  I don't agree with Pinker. World is better if only world=only humans. Only a selfish species would say that or one who wants to feel good. For every other species it's too bad.
  - JadeNB 6y ago
    > Only a selfish species would say that or one who wants to feel good. But probably we can agree that, even if it would be better to make the world better for all of its inhabitants, including non-humans, at least it would be a good start on the process to try to work on reducing the collective misery of humans. Much like accessibility changes benefit everyone, a lot of the changes that will make life better for all humankind will also make life better for all the planet's inhabitants. (For example, one component of reducing misery even if we focus only on humans is reducing the disruptions due to climate change.)
- justforyou 6y ago
  Steven Pinker's work is disingenuous and riddled with inaccuracies. I suggest reading Chris Ryan's Civilized to Death to correct the intellectual damage inflicted by Pinker.
bradenb 6y ago
Of course we deserve to be OK. Every species* deserves to be OK and every species fights to be OK. We have a lot of work to do to make sure we don't ruin our "host," but the fact that we are aware of the problem already--to me--says a lot about our desire to give up some comforts for a greater good. I think as a species we're always just doing the best we think we (collectively) can do at any given time. Some individuals will do better than others, but I think on average we are improving. * except mosquitoes
- ARandomerDude 6y ago
  > Every species* deserves to be OK Please don't take this is as contrarian trolling, but as a catalyst for reflection: what makes that statement true? What is the foundation for us deserving to be OK?
  - Grimm1 6y ago
    What's the foundation for us not deserving to be OK? Equally not trolling. I frankly find the notion of deserving in this case to have very little meaning. Life I don't think has these moral absolutes, can you make it okay for yourself? If so then congrats you get to be okay regardless of somebody's subjective thought on the matter.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    From an evolutionary perspective, you are technically right. We've evolved to reproduce and to support traits that aid in reproduction. From that perspective, it doesn't matter if we as individuals are okay or not. However, we evolved from social, tribal apes. As an individual, I want to optimize my own happiness and contentness because it feels good. Humans have mirror neurons that cause me to feel the emotions I see in others. Because of that, I have an incentive not only to fight for my own comfort and happiness, but the happiness of others. What's interesting is that our mirror neurons can extend past humans. I have the capacity to feel for other animals. That gives me an incentive to either care for their happiness or never think of them whatsoever.
  - antepodius 6y ago
LocalH 6y ago
The duality of mankind in play. We’re capable of immense good, but the flip side of that is that we’re capable of immense evil. Good and evil as we understand it are human concepts, nature largely doesn’t give a crap about good and evil. I choose to try to make the in-the-moment experience of those around me more pleasant. When you think about it, that’s all that really exists at any given moment, everything else is stored in our mind or hasn’t happened yet. At least from the human perspective, anyway. The now is the most important moment of our entire existence. I find this extremely fulfilling as a human.
- tsco77 6y ago
  Well, you've sent me down an interesting rabbit hole on the moral status of animals in ethics, and I figure I might as well share what I read: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-animal/#Sent https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-animal/#Sent
microcolonel 6y ago
If you don't believe in humanity anymore, heh, you're going to get nihilistic. I think that people deserve what they earn. > ...an inability to be away from the computer (work)... If you are somehow feeling oppressed by having a job that you can conduct through your computer, then it's time to consider just how lucky you are, and meditate on that each morning. I don't mean this as a dig, it is my genuine advice, I've seen it work well for myself and others. > inability to go to a different indoor location (coronavirus) Go somewhere which prioritizes human rights over futile attempts to control infectious disease, there are plenty of states with an intact freedom of association, where you can be indoors with other people if you are so inclined (though you may choose to keep it a bit limited). I came to the flyover west of the country this month, and it's been great. I still have all of my mask-wearing and physical distancing habits, but they're mine now (and apparently more popular here than back in Ontario). > I guess we do not have the power, we are not responsible for the way the world is, and we do not have to bear the guilt for it. You are richer than the vast majority of people in the world, you have more power than you can admit to yourself; you are responsible for the way the world is, and guilty of all of its sins. Now do the first incremental thing. Don't make excuses, make progress.
WC3w6pXxgGd 6y ago
Don't live in certain poorly-run cities and you won't think this.
ekianjo 6y ago
> The constant flood of bad news You may be strongly influenced by what you watch.
olau 6y ago
Do something about it. If you work on it, it's likely you'll inspire other people. If you don't know how to start, look to others for inspiration. If we all do something to make the world a better place, it WILL be a better place. Also, say no to bad stuff as much as you can muster. You'll probably get better at it over time.
- ericmcer 6y ago
  I am cynical about this because I view our current society as a kind of giant prisoners dilemma. If you sacrifice to make things better it is just allowing for others to behave worse for longer. If I take short showers to conserve water, it just opens the road for other people to use more. Until we hit a giant drought that forces people to confront the consequences they will continue watering giant lawns. Apply that to whatever area of life you want.
  - progman32 6y ago
    Sometimes, not always. If I improve my temperament, or if I help get someone an education, or if I help get an unjust law changed, or I raise awareness on some issue, these actions don't cause someone to get meaner, someone to lose their education, someone to make a bad law, or someone to hide an issue. For environmental issues, I see your point. I hope that actions on conservation don't get 100% canceled out. Even if they're 90% canceled out it still buys us a little more time.
asdffdsa 6y ago
I guess the one thing that holds me back from acting more selflessly than I do is that we don't appreciate the efforts of goodwill of others, and we reward selfishness. I pay 45% of my income in taxes? The message is "pay your fair share". Pick up a piece of trash and put it in the garbage can? More litter will replace it when you walk by it the next time. Work extra hard to make sure a project is completed? "You're a great team player." Contrast that with what happens when you act selfishly. Negotiate salary aggressively? Receive a 20 - 50% pay bump. Buy cheap meat instead of humanely raised or organic? Save hundreds on your monthly grocery bills. Get Starbucks every day? No one directly minds about the waste you created. These is one of the biggest cultural issues we should address imo. And we're already seeing the negative humanitarian impacts of selfishness with respect to the Covid epidemic. If the virus required greater awareness, empathy and care then we would have been wiped out. This comment is referring to American culture, if it wasn't evident already
- ericmcer 6y ago
  My favorite example of this comes from my ~10 years working at grocery stores before I made it into the tech industry. An older lady would come in and just clean us out of our cheap ground beef. This was at trader joe's, we sold 1 pound plastic wrapped cubes for $2.99. She would come in and buy ~20 every week. I finally asked her what she was doing with all this ground beef and she explained how it was for her two big dogs and laughed about how spoiled they were. She was totally oblivious about her actions and their implications, completely content with her lifestyle, probably even felt good about how healthy her dogs were. Viewed through a different lens she is abhorrent, single-handedly undoing the work of 20 vegetarians all because her dogs are too good for regular dog food.
  - parliament32 6y ago
    I don't want this to sound like an attack but what's the issue? Heaven forbid someone feeds their pets the food they're supposed to eat instead of some hyper-processed and unregulated sawdust pellets.
    - 6y ago
groby_b 6y ago
> I guess we do not have the power, we are not responsible for the way the world is, and we do not have to bear the guilt for it. We are all responsible, and we all have a tiny bit of power we can use. If we abdicate that, yes, we have to bear the guilt for it. That doesn't mean we have to fix it, but we do have to do something to make a fix more likely, even in the small. If that's depressing, I find solace in Rabbi Tarfon: "It is not your duty to finish the work, but neither are you at liberty to neglect it". Knowing it is not my duty to finish it makes it more bearable to only be able to act in the small. Edit: I do not mean to fault you for how you think about the situation, and I'm not sure if this came sufficiently across - I merely mean to point out a different mindset that might help deal with the feeling of powerlessness.
eulers_secret 6y ago
I feel the same way. Humanity is going to reap what it has sown. I think we do not deserve to be OK. Warning, my very cynical viewpoint below. We've destroyed or are destroying (not exhaustive by any means): flying insect populations by 75%, wild animal populations, coral reefs, numerous fisheries, both poles of the Earth, rain forests... Climate change is not going to stop or be stopped. Check page 8 of this PDF for a 2050 scenario of climate change: https://52a87f3e-7945-4bb1-abbf-9aa66cd4e93e.filesusr.com/ugd/148cb0_90dc2a2637f348edae45943a88da04d4.pdf https://52a87f3e-7945-4bb1-abbf-9aa66cd4e93e.filesusr.com/ug... Climate change will probably be a causative factor in future wildfires and pandemics. Get used to this lifestyle. Even if we stopped emitting greenhouse gases right now, the earth would still warm: https://theconversation.com/if-we-stopped-emitting-greenhouse-gases-right-now-would-we-stop-climate-change-78882 https://theconversation.com/if-we-stopped-emitting-greenhous... I personally think this is due to overpopulation (This is a VERY controversial viewpoint, I know). Take it with a massive grain of salt, but here's someone's take: https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/iprn0y/natural_world_being_destroyed_at_rate_never_seen/g4m3zdm/ https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/iprn0y/natural_w... It has been pretty well known the best thing an individual can do to help the climate is to have fewer children: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-... However, the biological imperative to reproduce is too strong. We will not stop until we have consumed all resources and some external factor limits our population. Could be famine (due to climate change), could be disease (due to climate change), could be war (due to climate change). It won't be because people decide to. What I've personally decided to do is to not have children and try to enjoy watching the world be destroyed from a front-row seat. What we are seeing and will see is unprecedented. I cannot stop it, and neither can you. I believe it cannot be stopped. I take comfort knowing I won't continue the cycle of suffering by raising the next generation of wage slaves. I haven't even touched on politics, class inequality, race inequality, sex inequality, whatever the hell Trump represents about the USA, the potential rise of fascism, alt-right propaganda machines, antifa bogymen, wealth inequality, business conglomeration, excessive executive pay, stale working wages, US health insurance, many without any sick leave, very high housing prices, homelessness, poor mental health care... it just keeps going. Like I said, I'm very cynical and quite bearish on humanity as a whole. :)
nkrisc 6y ago
I would just leave morality out of it. The universe exists, with or without us, just as Earth has and will. All you can do is live your life in the world you find yourself in and make the most of it before you, and the rest of us, are eventually gone. For me that means living my life, doing what I can to be kind and make others happy because that's what I enjoy doing. Nothing I do will really matter though, in the long run. But that's OK. Why does it have to matter?

swyx 6y ago

there's a lot of bad in the world, but also keep in mind the Steven Pinker argument that we have progressed a lot compared to human history as well. as for dealing with it - personally i embrace the idea of "keep your circle of concern as small as possible to your circle of influence". practically, it works out to "stop giving a crap" which i know is not responsible en masse. i guess the only thing to do if you feel like you must do something in your lifetime is to run for office.

jacobedawson 6y ago
Even though it might be true that we have progressed a lot, our impact has increased exponentially, to the point where 20 million completely irresponsible humans don't have anywhere near the potentially catastrophic effect of 7 billion relatively enlightened humans (with nukes & fossil fuels). I do feel we might 'just make it' if we can organize culturally as well as technologically, but it looks like it's going to be a nailbiter.
Ma8ee 6y ago
I certainly don't interpret "keep your circle of concern as small as possible to your circle of influence" as "stop giving a crap". I actually means that you for example should decrease the amount of meat you eat and try to find other means of transportation than car if possible. Each and everyone of us influence the environment in many ways. And even if your influence is small, the total is the sum of all our contributions. If everyone of us just think "it doesn't matter what I do", then we are truly screwed. If most of us instead think "I'm at least doing my part", then we have come a long way already.
- JadeNB 6y ago
  > I certainly don't interpret "keep your circle of concern as small as possible to your circle of influence" as "stop giving a crap". I actually means that you for example should decrease the amount of meat you eat and try to find other means of transportation than car if possible. Exactly—before trying to solve the world's problems (and getting frustrated because you can't), try to solve the problems closer to home (and get motivated because, if you keep your focus small enough, you can).
glenda 6y ago
It sounds like you’re making excuses for the world as it is. The OP is right though. These aren’t things we have to live with just because Steven Pinker said the world is better off now than before... We are in control of our environment to a certain extent and have the capability of transforming it into something other than an isle of cheap meats under florescent lighting. We are capable of ending systemic violence and homelessness, since they are things we collectively allow to exist each day. We can get rid of cars and build more beautiful cities!
- Diederich 6y ago
  The higher one climbs on a mountain, the further one can see. I think we're capable of seeing how much better we can make things today primarily because of how high we've climbed so far.
- komali2 6y ago
  Well, we're trying, aren't we? Do we give up because we aren't perfect yet and instead start trying to end the species? I'm not sure the objective of fatalist arguments. "We don't deserve to be ok" ?like, it's nearly impossible to get anything done when not ok (aka depressed). Fatalism will hurt efforts, not help, based on personal experience.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  > We can get rid of cars and build more beautiful cities! We don't have cars because we love driving and waste hours in traffic or something. They have a purpose and solve problems.
  - Ma8ee 6y ago
    Yes, but most of those problems have other, less wasteful solutions. We don’t have to live sprawled out far away from our workplaces, and we don’t each and every one need to move our own 1500 kg vehicle to get somewhere in urban areas.
    - ekianjo 6y ago
birksherty 6y ago
I don't agree with Pinker. World is better if only world=only humans. Only a selfish species would say that or one who wants to feel good. For every other species it's too bad.
- JadeNB 6y ago
  > Only a selfish species would say that or one who wants to feel good. But probably we can agree that, even if it would be better to make the world better for all of its inhabitants, including non-humans, at least it would be a good start on the process to try to work on reducing the collective misery of humans. Much like accessibility changes benefit everyone, a lot of the changes that will make life better for all humankind will also make life better for all the planet's inhabitants. (For example, one component of reducing misery even if we focus only on humans is reducing the disruptions due to climate change.)
justforyou 6y ago
Steven Pinker's work is disingenuous and riddled with inaccuracies. I suggest reading Chris Ryan's Civilized to Death to correct the intellectual damage inflicted by Pinker.

bradenb 6y ago

Of course we deserve to be OK. Every species* deserves to be OK and every species fights to be OK. We have a lot of work to do to make sure we don't ruin our "host," but the fact that we are aware of the problem already--to me--says a lot about our desire to give up some comforts for a greater good. I think as a species we're always just doing the best we think we (collectively) can do at any given time. Some individuals will do better than others, but I think on average we are improving. * except mosquitoes

ARandomerDude 6y ago
> Every species* deserves to be OK Please don't take this is as contrarian trolling, but as a catalyst for reflection: what makes that statement true? What is the foundation for us deserving to be OK?
- Grimm1 6y ago
  What's the foundation for us not deserving to be OK? Equally not trolling. I frankly find the notion of deserving in this case to have very little meaning. Life I don't think has these moral absolutes, can you make it okay for yourself? If so then congrats you get to be okay regardless of somebody's subjective thought on the matter.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  From an evolutionary perspective, you are technically right. We've evolved to reproduce and to support traits that aid in reproduction. From that perspective, it doesn't matter if we as individuals are okay or not. However, we evolved from social, tribal apes. As an individual, I want to optimize my own happiness and contentness because it feels good. Humans have mirror neurons that cause me to feel the emotions I see in others. Because of that, I have an incentive not only to fight for my own comfort and happiness, but the happiness of others. What's interesting is that our mirror neurons can extend past humans. I have the capacity to feel for other animals. That gives me an incentive to either care for their happiness or never think of them whatsoever.
- antepodius 6y ago

LocalH 6y ago

The duality of mankind in play. We’re capable of immense good, but the flip side of that is that we’re capable of immense evil. Good and evil as we understand it are human concepts, nature largely doesn’t give a crap about good and evil. I choose to try to make the in-the-moment experience of those around me more pleasant. When you think about it, that’s all that really exists at any given moment, everything else is stored in our mind or hasn’t happened yet. At least from the human perspective, anyway. The now is the most important moment of our entire existence. I find this extremely fulfilling as a human.

tsco77 6y ago
Well, you've sent me down an interesting rabbit hole on the moral status of animals in ethics, and I figure I might as well share what I read: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-animal/#Sent https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-animal/#Sent

microcolonel 6y ago

If you don't believe in humanity anymore, heh, you're going to get nihilistic. I think that people deserve what they earn. > ...an inability to be away from the computer (work)... If you are somehow feeling oppressed by having a job that you can conduct through your computer, then it's time to consider just how lucky you are, and meditate on that each morning. I don't mean this as a dig, it is my genuine advice, I've seen it work well for myself and others. > inability to go to a different indoor location (coronavirus) Go somewhere which prioritizes human rights over futile attempts to control infectious disease, there are plenty of states with an intact freedom of association, where you can be indoors with other people if you are so inclined (though you may choose to keep it a bit limited). I came to the flyover west of the country this month, and it's been great. I still have all of my mask-wearing and physical distancing habits, but they're mine now (and apparently more popular here than back in Ontario). > I guess we do not have the power, we are not responsible for the way the world is, and we do not have to bear the guilt for it. You are richer than the vast majority of people in the world, you have more power than you can admit to yourself; you are responsible for the way the world is, and guilty of all of its sins. Now do the first incremental thing. Don't make excuses, make progress.

WC3w6pXxgGd 6y ago

Don't live in certain poorly-run cities and you won't think this.

ekianjo 6y ago

> The constant flood of bad news You may be strongly influenced by what you watch.

olau 6y ago

Do something about it. If you work on it, it's likely you'll inspire other people. If you don't know how to start, look to others for inspiration. If we all do something to make the world a better place, it WILL be a better place. Also, say no to bad stuff as much as you can muster. You'll probably get better at it over time.

ericmcer 6y ago
I am cynical about this because I view our current society as a kind of giant prisoners dilemma. If you sacrifice to make things better it is just allowing for others to behave worse for longer. If I take short showers to conserve water, it just opens the road for other people to use more. Until we hit a giant drought that forces people to confront the consequences they will continue watering giant lawns. Apply that to whatever area of life you want.
- progman32 6y ago
  Sometimes, not always. If I improve my temperament, or if I help get someone an education, or if I help get an unjust law changed, or I raise awareness on some issue, these actions don't cause someone to get meaner, someone to lose their education, someone to make a bad law, or someone to hide an issue. For environmental issues, I see your point. I hope that actions on conservation don't get 100% canceled out. Even if they're 90% canceled out it still buys us a little more time.

asdffdsa 6y ago

I guess the one thing that holds me back from acting more selflessly than I do is that we don't appreciate the efforts of goodwill of others, and we reward selfishness. I pay 45% of my income in taxes? The message is "pay your fair share". Pick up a piece of trash and put it in the garbage can? More litter will replace it when you walk by it the next time. Work extra hard to make sure a project is completed? "You're a great team player." Contrast that with what happens when you act selfishly. Negotiate salary aggressively? Receive a 20 - 50% pay bump. Buy cheap meat instead of humanely raised or organic? Save hundreds on your monthly grocery bills. Get Starbucks every day? No one directly minds about the waste you created. These is one of the biggest cultural issues we should address imo. And we're already seeing the negative humanitarian impacts of selfishness with respect to the Covid epidemic. If the virus required greater awareness, empathy and care then we would have been wiped out. This comment is referring to American culture, if it wasn't evident already

ericmcer 6y ago
My favorite example of this comes from my ~10 years working at grocery stores before I made it into the tech industry. An older lady would come in and just clean us out of our cheap ground beef. This was at trader joe's, we sold 1 pound plastic wrapped cubes for $2.99. She would come in and buy ~20 every week. I finally asked her what she was doing with all this ground beef and she explained how it was for her two big dogs and laughed about how spoiled they were. She was totally oblivious about her actions and their implications, completely content with her lifestyle, probably even felt good about how healthy her dogs were. Viewed through a different lens she is abhorrent, single-handedly undoing the work of 20 vegetarians all because her dogs are too good for regular dog food.
- parliament32 6y ago
  I don't want this to sound like an attack but what's the issue? Heaven forbid someone feeds their pets the food they're supposed to eat instead of some hyper-processed and unregulated sawdust pellets.
  - 6y ago

groby_b 6y ago

> I guess we do not have the power, we are not responsible for the way the world is, and we do not have to bear the guilt for it. We are all responsible, and we all have a tiny bit of power we can use. If we abdicate that, yes, we have to bear the guilt for it. That doesn't mean we have to fix it, but we do have to do something to make a fix more likely, even in the small. If that's depressing, I find solace in Rabbi Tarfon: "It is not your duty to finish the work, but neither are you at liberty to neglect it". Knowing it is not my duty to finish it makes it more bearable to only be able to act in the small. Edit: I do not mean to fault you for how you think about the situation, and I'm not sure if this came sufficiently across - I merely mean to point out a different mindset that might help deal with the feeling of powerlessness.

eulers_secret 6y ago

I feel the same way. Humanity is going to reap what it has sown. I think we do not deserve to be OK. Warning, my very cynical viewpoint below. We've destroyed or are destroying (not exhaustive by any means): flying insect populations by 75%, wild animal populations, coral reefs, numerous fisheries, both poles of the Earth, rain forests... Climate change is not going to stop or be stopped. Check page 8 of this PDF for a 2050 scenario of climate change: https://52a87f3e-7945-4bb1-abbf-9aa66cd4e93e.filesusr.com/ugd/148cb0_90dc2a2637f348edae45943a88da04d4.pdf https://52a87f3e-7945-4bb1-abbf-9aa66cd4e93e.filesusr.com/ug... Climate change will probably be a causative factor in future wildfires and pandemics. Get used to this lifestyle. Even if we stopped emitting greenhouse gases right now, the earth would still warm: https://theconversation.com/if-we-stopped-emitting-greenhouse-gases-right-now-would-we-stop-climate-change-78882 https://theconversation.com/if-we-stopped-emitting-greenhous... I personally think this is due to overpopulation (This is a VERY controversial viewpoint, I know). Take it with a massive grain of salt, but here's someone's take: https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/iprn0y/natural_world_being_destroyed_at_rate_never_seen/g4m3zdm/ https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/iprn0y/natural_w... It has been pretty well known the best thing an individual can do to help the climate is to have fewer children: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-... However, the biological imperative to reproduce is too strong. We will not stop until we have consumed all resources and some external factor limits our population. Could be famine (due to climate change), could be disease (due to climate change), could be war (due to climate change). It won't be because people decide to. What I've personally decided to do is to not have children and try to enjoy watching the world be destroyed from a front-row seat. What we are seeing and will see is unprecedented. I cannot stop it, and neither can you. I believe it cannot be stopped. I take comfort knowing I won't continue the cycle of suffering by raising the next generation of wage slaves. I haven't even touched on politics, class inequality, race inequality, sex inequality, whatever the hell Trump represents about the USA, the potential rise of fascism, alt-right propaganda machines, antifa bogymen, wealth inequality, business conglomeration, excessive executive pay, stale working wages, US health insurance, many without any sick leave, very high housing prices, homelessness, poor mental health care... it just keeps going. Like I said, I'm very cynical and quite bearish on humanity as a whole. :)

nkrisc 6y ago

I would just leave morality out of it. The universe exists, with or without us, just as Earth has and will. All you can do is live your life in the world you find yourself in and make the most of it before you, and the rest of us, are eventually gone. For me that means living my life, doing what I can to be kind and make others happy because that's what I enjoy doing. Nothing I do will really matter though, in the long run. But that's OK. Why does it have to matter?