6 ms·

AmazonBasics Electronics Fire Safety Investigation

98 points by SethMurphy 6y ago

ars 6y ago
This article is just a stupid hit piece. A USB cord is not responsible for detecting short circuits. That's the job of the charger not the cord. The best cord in the entire universe cannot prevent short circuits.
- ctrl-j 6y ago
  A short circuit is usually a wiring issue. A poorly manufactured USB cable can certainly cause a short circuit. Fire investigators are also well versed in the forensic investigation of these scenes. If his expert analysis determined the cord was at fault, there's a good chance it was the cable and not the device.
  - sigstoat 6y ago
    > A short circuit is usually a wiring issue. A poorly manufactured USB cable can certainly cause a short circuit. yes. also extremely high quality cables which have been damaged in the field can develop a short. power supplies intended for use by users who cannot/will not inspect their cabling for damage (morally) should detect that the output is shorted and stop applying a voltage. they're the only device in the "charger, cable, chargee" chain that can do anything about the situation.
- Someone1234 6y ago
  It is a 5000 word article that talks about multiple classes of products, contextualizes the problem (regulations, competition, history, etc), and discusses possible mitigations. It is a huge mischaracterization to suggest that this is a hit piece about "USB cords." That was one of half a dozen different electrical products they discussed, and only the jumping off point into a much larger discussion.
- argb 6y ago
  But the USB charger manufacturers could do better by shutting down the output should arcing/sparking be detected. We already have this for 120V AC supplies, and it should be doable for 5V DC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter
  - smileypete 6y ago
    >But the USB charger manufacturers could do better by shutting down the output should arcing/sparking be detected. A poor connection at a plug can (or will?) cause a hot spot without arcing, and for a long thin cable a short may not even trigger the overcurrent protection of a high power charger. Best to buy a cable with a decent 'AWG rating' eg 24AWG, either from a reputable brand like Tronsmart, or a specialist supplier, in the UK there's Kenable: https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/ https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/
wefwef23ggg23 6y ago
AmazonBasic == lowest quality cheap Asia-made products
ve55 6y ago
Articles like this aren't helpful because they pick and exhibit a few case studies instead of attempting to estimate base rates and risk proportions - of course some Amazon products have caught on fire, Amazon has sold a billion of them. What needs to be provided in this type of reporting is actual estimates of how many of the products may be dangerous, which is of course never provided or even attempted as an estimate.
- Someone1234 6y ago
  > Articles like this aren't helpful because they pick and exhibit a few case studies instead of attempting to estimate base rates and risk proportions So you're saying articles aren't allowed to criticize manufacturers without proprietary information that only the manufacturer itself has? A better question might be: Why aren't Amazon publishing the number of units sold relative to number of fires? Instead of putting the journalist trying to cover this with imperfect information into the dock, let's see Amazon defend it.
  - ve55 6y ago
    >So you're saying articles aren't allowed to Nope, I said nothing of what is allowed, and the majority of reports like this will never contain useful statistics regardless. I just said it's not helpful to consumers, because it doesn't actually help them make a better decision when you don't know if the brand is more or less safe than the alternatives. They could easily write an article about a huge problem someone had with product X. Then consumers instead buy product Y, which could have a higher rate of problems, and the article has done harm instead of good. I can't make a claim about this article, but given they're just written for clicks, it's not like they have the consumer's interests in mind either way.
    - Someone1234 6y ago
      > I just said it's not helpful to consumers, because it doesn't actually help them make a better decision when you don't know if the brand is more or less safe than the alternatives. I agree. But I am confused why this lack of statistics is the journalist's fault instead of either the manufacturer who has is sitting on the information, or lack of regulatory rigor that could force public disclosure. You haven't proposed how the journalist gets this proprietary information? Only that they should sit down and be quiet until they have it somehow. If your point is that all manufacturers should disclose, so we can compare/contrast, I agree entirely. But it comes across more like you think journalists shouldn't report on problems if the people they're reporting on aren't cooperating vis-a-vis full disclosure. Which is tantamount to the end of investigative journalism.
FerretFred 6y ago
Shopping with Amazon has become increasingly difficult. I can no longer rely on the reviews, and the volume of results that come up for even a simple search make for a lot of searching. Amazon really, really need to stop being the dumpster for cheap and nasty China-manufactured goods. And yes, of course I'm welcome to shop elsewhere if I don't like what's on offer, and that's what I'm increasingly doing. Bezos' loss, but he'll never notice.
- bradgessler 6y ago
  I miss the Amazon from yesteryear when Prime was first launched. You could confidently read and trust the reviews, 1-click buy the item when satisfied, and have it show up 1-2 days later. Today that magic is lost; it’s mostly a huge junk store with untrustworthy reviews. Something I can’t really get my head around is that it seems like such an obvious problem to identify within Amazon’s ranks, and correcting it feels like something within their means, but they just ... don’t. Are there any e-commerce sites that exist today with the same magic Amazon use to have?
- Tarsul 6y ago
  It appears to be a similar problem akin to facebook, twitter etc. which promote "every" content no matter how bad (e.g. trolling etc.) it is for as long as the underlying metrics (e.g. click rates, revenue) appear to go up. However, they don't see the second order effect, namely that customers lose interest in engaging with the sites over the long run and start looking for alternatives.
mike503 6y ago
I was under the impression AmazonBasics was very much like Costco’s Kirkland brand, where they relabeled some other manufacturer's products. Maybe I’m wrong. Or it’s hit and miss.

98 points by SethMurphy 6y ago

ars 6y ago

This article is just a stupid hit piece. A USB cord is not responsible for detecting short circuits. That's the job of the charger not the cord. The best cord in the entire universe cannot prevent short circuits.

ctrl-j 6y ago
A short circuit is usually a wiring issue. A poorly manufactured USB cable can certainly cause a short circuit. Fire investigators are also well versed in the forensic investigation of these scenes. If his expert analysis determined the cord was at fault, there's a good chance it was the cable and not the device.
- sigstoat 6y ago
  > A short circuit is usually a wiring issue. A poorly manufactured USB cable can certainly cause a short circuit. yes. also extremely high quality cables which have been damaged in the field can develop a short. power supplies intended for use by users who cannot/will not inspect their cabling for damage (morally) should detect that the output is shorted and stop applying a voltage. they're the only device in the "charger, cable, chargee" chain that can do anything about the situation.
Someone1234 6y ago
It is a 5000 word article that talks about multiple classes of products, contextualizes the problem (regulations, competition, history, etc), and discusses possible mitigations. It is a huge mischaracterization to suggest that this is a hit piece about "USB cords." That was one of half a dozen different electrical products they discussed, and only the jumping off point into a much larger discussion.
argb 6y ago
But the USB charger manufacturers could do better by shutting down the output should arcing/sparking be detected. We already have this for 120V AC supplies, and it should be doable for 5V DC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter
- smileypete 6y ago
  >But the USB charger manufacturers could do better by shutting down the output should arcing/sparking be detected. A poor connection at a plug can (or will?) cause a hot spot without arcing, and for a long thin cable a short may not even trigger the overcurrent protection of a high power charger. Best to buy a cable with a decent 'AWG rating' eg 24AWG, either from a reputable brand like Tronsmart, or a specialist supplier, in the UK there's Kenable: https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/ https://www.kenable.co.uk/en/

wefwef23ggg23 6y ago

AmazonBasic == lowest quality cheap Asia-made products

ve55 6y ago

Articles like this aren't helpful because they pick and exhibit a few case studies instead of attempting to estimate base rates and risk proportions - of course some Amazon products have caught on fire, Amazon has sold a billion of them. What needs to be provided in this type of reporting is actual estimates of how many of the products may be dangerous, which is of course never provided or even attempted as an estimate.

Someone1234 6y ago
> Articles like this aren't helpful because they pick and exhibit a few case studies instead of attempting to estimate base rates and risk proportions So you're saying articles aren't allowed to criticize manufacturers without proprietary information that only the manufacturer itself has? A better question might be: Why aren't Amazon publishing the number of units sold relative to number of fires? Instead of putting the journalist trying to cover this with imperfect information into the dock, let's see Amazon defend it.
- ve55 6y ago
  >So you're saying articles aren't allowed to Nope, I said nothing of what is allowed, and the majority of reports like this will never contain useful statistics regardless. I just said it's not helpful to consumers, because it doesn't actually help them make a better decision when you don't know if the brand is more or less safe than the alternatives. They could easily write an article about a huge problem someone had with product X. Then consumers instead buy product Y, which could have a higher rate of problems, and the article has done harm instead of good. I can't make a claim about this article, but given they're just written for clicks, it's not like they have the consumer's interests in mind either way.
  - Someone1234 6y ago
    > I just said it's not helpful to consumers, because it doesn't actually help them make a better decision when you don't know if the brand is more or less safe than the alternatives. I agree. But I am confused why this lack of statistics is the journalist's fault instead of either the manufacturer who has is sitting on the information, or lack of regulatory rigor that could force public disclosure. You haven't proposed how the journalist gets this proprietary information? Only that they should sit down and be quiet until they have it somehow. If your point is that all manufacturers should disclose, so we can compare/contrast, I agree entirely. But it comes across more like you think journalists shouldn't report on problems if the people they're reporting on aren't cooperating vis-a-vis full disclosure. Which is tantamount to the end of investigative journalism.

FerretFred 6y ago

Shopping with Amazon has become increasingly difficult. I can no longer rely on the reviews, and the volume of results that come up for even a simple search make for a lot of searching. Amazon really, really need to stop being the dumpster for cheap and nasty China-manufactured goods. And yes, of course I'm welcome to shop elsewhere if I don't like what's on offer, and that's what I'm increasingly doing. Bezos' loss, but he'll never notice.

bradgessler 6y ago
I miss the Amazon from yesteryear when Prime was first launched. You could confidently read and trust the reviews, 1-click buy the item when satisfied, and have it show up 1-2 days later. Today that magic is lost; it’s mostly a huge junk store with untrustworthy reviews. Something I can’t really get my head around is that it seems like such an obvious problem to identify within Amazon’s ranks, and correcting it feels like something within their means, but they just ... don’t. Are there any e-commerce sites that exist today with the same magic Amazon use to have?
Tarsul 6y ago
It appears to be a similar problem akin to facebook, twitter etc. which promote "every" content no matter how bad (e.g. trolling etc.) it is for as long as the underlying metrics (e.g. click rates, revenue) appear to go up. However, they don't see the second order effect, namely that customers lose interest in engaging with the sites over the long run and start looking for alternatives.

mike503 6y ago

I was under the impression AmazonBasics was very much like Costco’s Kirkland brand, where they relabeled some other manufacturer's products. Maybe I’m wrong. Or it’s hit and miss.