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It's people like you who inspire me to post examples of Christianity genuinely helping people. I am an atheist, but I don't agree with the hateful or mocking at

by xlnt 18y ago

It's people like you who inspire me to post examples of Christianity genuinely helping people. I am an atheist, but I don't agree with the hateful or mocking attitude many atheists have.

axod 18y ago
I expect it's mainly in response to the argument that without religion you cannot have morality which lots of religious types seem to believe. The hijacking of morality by religious people can be pretty irritating.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- xlnt 18y ago
  While I agree the conclusion isn't true, I have yet to see any modern, public atheists write anything one quarter decent about morality. I have seen some very bad writing about morality, such as in The God Delusion, which can't be helping matters. If you disagree, post a source.
  - axod 18y ago
    The us is roughly twice as religeous as the uk. Is it twice as moral? I'd say crime is quite a bit higher in the us. In my experience growing up in the uk (majority of people are not religeous), the majority DO have a good sense of what is right and wrong.
    - xlnt 18y ago
      Oh certainly, I agree. However, the lack of (non-awful) explicit, atheistic writing on morality is still an important problem, and helps religious people get away with denying atheists can be moral. If you are moral, but can't explain why, it's easier for people to doubt.
Hexstream 18y ago
The annoying thing with religion is that each has a body of good principles which serve to lure new believers, and then after that it's: "Now that you've learned all the good stuff that actually makes sense, here's more 'good stuff'" and then they proceed to teach arbitrary principles and even harmful ones that sometimes completely contradict the actually good principles. Example: "Don't kill your neighbor." Hey that makes sense, let's become Christian! And then later you read in the Bible that "if your neighbor does X or Y, KILL HIM WITHOUT MERCY!" As for the problem of inconsistencies in the Bible, the usual response is that you need someone to sort it out for you... But what's the point of having a reference if a big part of it is bullshit and you need someone like a priest to sort it out for you? And then you lose your self-determination... As for the arbitrary stuff, one good example would be "Don't work on Sundays", though I admit that's not a very popular one anymore. I think it's normal that everyone holds some arbitrary beliefs without good proof but it's appalling when a MASSIVE amount of people standardize on a common body of arbitrary beliefs and then collectively "refute" your rational objections (oftentimes by refering you to "authoritative" sources like the Bible, and then you can never win against "Bible lawyers").
- xlnt 18y ago
  I agree with your complaints, and many other complaints. Christianity is flawed. But the fact remains that in some situations it helps people, and we should respect that. It's not like any of our traditions are without flaws, and it's not like starting from scratch is better than modifying existing traditions, so be kind to Christians.

by xlnt 18y ago

It's people like you who inspire me to post examples of Christianity genuinely helping people. I am an atheist, but I don't agree with the hateful or mocking attitude many atheists have.

axod 18y ago

I expect it's mainly in response to the argument that without religion you cannot have morality which lots of religious types seem to believe. The hijacking of morality by religious people can be pretty irritating.

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
xlnt 18y ago
While I agree the conclusion isn't true, I have yet to see any modern, public atheists write anything one quarter decent about morality. I have seen some very bad writing about morality, such as in The God Delusion, which can't be helping matters. If you disagree, post a source.
- axod 18y ago
  The us is roughly twice as religeous as the uk. Is it twice as moral? I'd say crime is quite a bit higher in the us. In my experience growing up in the uk (majority of people are not religeous), the majority DO have a good sense of what is right and wrong.
  - xlnt 18y ago
    Oh certainly, I agree. However, the lack of (non-awful) explicit, atheistic writing on morality is still an important problem, and helps religious people get away with denying atheists can be moral. If you are moral, but can't explain why, it's easier for people to doubt.

Hexstream 18y ago

The annoying thing with religion is that each has a body of good principles which serve to lure new believers, and then after that it's: "Now that you've learned all the good stuff that actually makes sense, here's more 'good stuff'" and then they proceed to teach arbitrary principles and even harmful ones that sometimes completely contradict the actually good principles. Example: "Don't kill your neighbor." Hey that makes sense, let's become Christian! And then later you read in the Bible that "if your neighbor does X or Y, KILL HIM WITHOUT MERCY!" As for the problem of inconsistencies in the Bible, the usual response is that you need someone to sort it out for you... But what's the point of having a reference if a big part of it is bullshit and you need someone like a priest to sort it out for you? And then you lose your self-determination... As for the arbitrary stuff, one good example would be "Don't work on Sundays", though I admit that's not a very popular one anymore. I think it's normal that everyone holds some arbitrary beliefs without good proof but it's appalling when a MASSIVE amount of people standardize on a common body of arbitrary beliefs and then collectively "refute" your rational objections (oftentimes by refering you to "authoritative" sources like the Bible, and then you can never win against "Bible lawyers").

xlnt 18y ago
I agree with your complaints, and many other complaints. Christianity is flawed. But the fact remains that in some situations it helps people, and we should respect that. It's not like any of our traditions are without flaws, and it's not like starting from scratch is better than modifying existing traditions, so be kind to Christians.