3 ms·

CK is really great, but if one really like to learn things about history / geopolitics while playing a game I don’t thing any game is as rich as EU4 :)

switch007 6y ago
EU4 = Europa Universalis IV, to save other people searching.
wellthisisgreat 6y ago
I never really gave it a fair chance because it seems like more like an optimization exercise than actual experience. The absolutely mind blowing part about CK for me is that I DO NOT MIND LOSING at all. Of course I am playing on Ironman always so there is no /save/reload. It is so AMAZING damn. For example: I would start the new dynasty and the whole thing collapses spectacularly after 3rd generation - great -wow - I had a blast. I spend like 2 weeks on and off conquering half the world, then one evening I get bored, start doing crazy stuff and everything collapses - wow - what a ride. I start out small, my wife dies can't find a fertile concubine my brother assassinates me, my game session is suddenly over in like 30 minutes. I am absolutely delighted. I don't feel like I should correct it all, salt the earth, become the richest king ever etc. etc. It just doesn't matter. Any other game was always - win win win. Crusader Kings is really a masterpiece. I think it's probably the most innovative game since 1990s when RTS / FPS / MMORPG / MMOFPS etc. were suddenly invented seemingly overnight. Sure it's possible to make an indie title that focuses on one interesting mechanic, or produce a game with a decent story and touching dialogues or create a memorable character. But to take something as ancient as a grand strategy (+RTS) genre in all its complexity (economics, armies, diplomacies) and to make something that feels REALLY brand new and also is an absolute blast to play and has one of the strongest "one more year (turn)" hook? Wow. I didn't experience a joy of revelation the first contact with CK-II gave me since maybe Dune-2 when I was blown away by the fact that each of those little soldiers and vehicles are living and breathing and are following my orders in real-time.
- RangerScience 6y ago
  Ever try Stellaris? It's been pretty cool watching the studio gradually add to the game, getting more of the CK/EU4 "losing is fun" (and overall complexity) into it. Their development model is really something I can get behind.
  - wellthisisgreat 6y ago
    Yeah I tried Stellaris, but it's more like a traditional 4X game so you're managing resources. There are some stories there but they don't just emerge every 5 minutes like in CK. Was just thinking today that the connection with real world is what makes CK work probably. You already have some preconceptions of who the people on the map are or at least imagine very easily based on your ideas about their descendants from today. Also the geography makes sense. Space is exciting but it's unknown and the races are made up and at least for me, it's hard to relate to them on the level that I would relate to some obscure Byzantium noble. I wonder what would it take to make the emergent storytelling work in a completely made up world the way it works in CK world. And yes their development process is amazing and an example really.
    - RangerScience 6y ago
      I don't know either, but I think they're figuring it out release by release. I played it when it first came out, and a bunch a few months ago, and there's way more, although yeah, not like CK... yet.

switch007 6y ago

EU4 = Europa Universalis IV, to save other people searching.

wellthisisgreat 6y ago

I never really gave it a fair chance because it seems like more like an optimization exercise than actual experience. The absolutely mind blowing part about CK for me is that I DO NOT MIND LOSING at all. Of course I am playing on Ironman always so there is no /save/reload. It is so AMAZING damn. For example: I would start the new dynasty and the whole thing collapses spectacularly after 3rd generation - great -wow - I had a blast. I spend like 2 weeks on and off conquering half the world, then one evening I get bored, start doing crazy stuff and everything collapses - wow - what a ride. I start out small, my wife dies can't find a fertile concubine my brother assassinates me, my game session is suddenly over in like 30 minutes. I am absolutely delighted. I don't feel like I should correct it all, salt the earth, become the richest king ever etc. etc. It just doesn't matter. Any other game was always - win win win. Crusader Kings is really a masterpiece. I think it's probably the most innovative game since 1990s when RTS / FPS / MMORPG / MMOFPS etc. were suddenly invented seemingly overnight. Sure it's possible to make an indie title that focuses on one interesting mechanic, or produce a game with a decent story and touching dialogues or create a memorable character. But to take something as ancient as a grand strategy (+RTS) genre in all its complexity (economics, armies, diplomacies) and to make something that feels REALLY brand new and also is an absolute blast to play and has one of the strongest "one more year (turn)" hook? Wow. I didn't experience a joy of revelation the first contact with CK-II gave me since maybe Dune-2 when I was blown away by the fact that each of those little soldiers and vehicles are living and breathing and are following my orders in real-time.

RangerScience 6y ago
Ever try Stellaris? It's been pretty cool watching the studio gradually add to the game, getting more of the CK/EU4 "losing is fun" (and overall complexity) into it. Their development model is really something I can get behind.
- wellthisisgreat 6y ago
  Yeah I tried Stellaris, but it's more like a traditional 4X game so you're managing resources. There are some stories there but they don't just emerge every 5 minutes like in CK. Was just thinking today that the connection with real world is what makes CK work probably. You already have some preconceptions of who the people on the map are or at least imagine very easily based on your ideas about their descendants from today. Also the geography makes sense. Space is exciting but it's unknown and the races are made up and at least for me, it's hard to relate to them on the level that I would relate to some obscure Byzantium noble. I wonder what would it take to make the emergent storytelling work in a completely made up world the way it works in CK world. And yes their development process is amazing and an example really.
  - RangerScience 6y ago
    I don't know either, but I think they're figuring it out release by release. I played it when it first came out, and a bunch a few months ago, and there's way more, although yeah, not like CK... yet.