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You know, the Bible helped me too! Things like "Don't kill your neighbor"... I never would have came up with this myself!

xlnt 18y ago
It's people like you who inspire me to post examples of Christianity genuinely helping people. I am an atheist, but I don't agree with the hateful or mocking attitude many atheists have.
- axod 18y ago
  I expect it's mainly in response to the argument that without religion you cannot have morality which lots of religious types seem to believe. The hijacking of morality by religious people can be pretty irritating.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - xlnt 18y ago
    While I agree the conclusion isn't true, I have yet to see any modern, public atheists write anything one quarter decent about morality. I have seen some very bad writing about morality, such as in The God Delusion, which can't be helping matters. If you disagree, post a source.
    - axod 18y ago
      The us is roughly twice as religeous as the uk. Is it twice as moral? I'd say crime is quite a bit higher in the us. In my experience growing up in the uk (majority of people are not religeous), the majority DO have a good sense of what is right and wrong.
      - xlnt 18y ago
        Oh certainly, I agree. However, the lack of (non-awful) explicit, atheistic writing on morality is still an important problem, and helps religious people get away with denying atheists can be moral. If you are moral, but can't explain why, it's easier for people to doubt.
- Hexstream 18y ago
  The annoying thing with religion is that each has a body of good principles which serve to lure new believers, and then after that it's: "Now that you've learned all the good stuff that actually makes sense, here's more 'good stuff'" and then they proceed to teach arbitrary principles and even harmful ones that sometimes completely contradict the actually good principles. Example: "Don't kill your neighbor." Hey that makes sense, let's become Christian! And then later you read in the Bible that "if your neighbor does X or Y, KILL HIM WITHOUT MERCY!" As for the problem of inconsistencies in the Bible, the usual response is that you need someone to sort it out for you... But what's the point of having a reference if a big part of it is bullshit and you need someone like a priest to sort it out for you? And then you lose your self-determination... As for the arbitrary stuff, one good example would be "Don't work on Sundays", though I admit that's not a very popular one anymore. I think it's normal that everyone holds some arbitrary beliefs without good proof but it's appalling when a MASSIVE amount of people standardize on a common body of arbitrary beliefs and then collectively "refute" your rational objections (oftentimes by refering you to "authoritative" sources like the Bible, and then you can never win against "Bible lawyers").
  - xlnt 18y ago
    I agree with your complaints, and many other complaints. Christianity is flawed. But the fact remains that in some situations it helps people, and we should respect that. It's not like any of our traditions are without flaws, and it's not like starting from scratch is better than modifying existing traditions, so be kind to Christians.
whacked_new 18y ago
The Bible is worth a read if you have any interest in history, which most readers here probably do. IIRC it is the most influential literary work in existence, and that alone is a reason to read it.
- krav 18y ago
  Um, which part is history: the burning bush part or who begat who?
  - aaronblohowiak 18y ago
    Wow, what ignorance. The course of civilization has been profoundly influenced by the Abrahamic traditions, and within the Abrahamic holy books lay the recounting of the tribes' histories and developments.
    - krav 18y ago
      Dude, how do you measure history? Check out the history of the Indians and Asia. While the Abrahamic(s) were a bunch of smelly tribes in the desert, the Asians were already charting the stars.
      - patrickg-zill 18y ago
        Yes, and the Chinese invented the printing press. But what did they do with it - nothing.
      - aaronblohowiak 18y ago
        Smelly? How do you know that? I made no cross-cultural comparison, I merely suggested that the influence of one group was of great intensity. Your refutation is kind of like me saying "peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are great!" and you saying "dude, how do you measure greatness? a bowl of french onion soup is better than that child's food -- it is served in restaurants." You tried to change the argument about the value of the bible as a historical document into an argument about the relative technological achievements of different societies.

xlnt 18y ago

It's people like you who inspire me to post examples of Christianity genuinely helping people. I am an atheist, but I don't agree with the hateful or mocking attitude many atheists have.

axod 18y ago
I expect it's mainly in response to the argument that without religion you cannot have morality which lots of religious types seem to believe. The hijacking of morality by religious people can be pretty irritating.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- xlnt 18y ago
  While I agree the conclusion isn't true, I have yet to see any modern, public atheists write anything one quarter decent about morality. I have seen some very bad writing about morality, such as in The God Delusion, which can't be helping matters. If you disagree, post a source.
  - axod 18y ago
    The us is roughly twice as religeous as the uk. Is it twice as moral? I'd say crime is quite a bit higher in the us. In my experience growing up in the uk (majority of people are not religeous), the majority DO have a good sense of what is right and wrong.
    - xlnt 18y ago
      Oh certainly, I agree. However, the lack of (non-awful) explicit, atheistic writing on morality is still an important problem, and helps religious people get away with denying atheists can be moral. If you are moral, but can't explain why, it's easier for people to doubt.
Hexstream 18y ago
The annoying thing with religion is that each has a body of good principles which serve to lure new believers, and then after that it's: "Now that you've learned all the good stuff that actually makes sense, here's more 'good stuff'" and then they proceed to teach arbitrary principles and even harmful ones that sometimes completely contradict the actually good principles. Example: "Don't kill your neighbor." Hey that makes sense, let's become Christian! And then later you read in the Bible that "if your neighbor does X or Y, KILL HIM WITHOUT MERCY!" As for the problem of inconsistencies in the Bible, the usual response is that you need someone to sort it out for you... But what's the point of having a reference if a big part of it is bullshit and you need someone like a priest to sort it out for you? And then you lose your self-determination... As for the arbitrary stuff, one good example would be "Don't work on Sundays", though I admit that's not a very popular one anymore. I think it's normal that everyone holds some arbitrary beliefs without good proof but it's appalling when a MASSIVE amount of people standardize on a common body of arbitrary beliefs and then collectively "refute" your rational objections (oftentimes by refering you to "authoritative" sources like the Bible, and then you can never win against "Bible lawyers").
- xlnt 18y ago
  I agree with your complaints, and many other complaints. Christianity is flawed. But the fact remains that in some situations it helps people, and we should respect that. It's not like any of our traditions are without flaws, and it's not like starting from scratch is better than modifying existing traditions, so be kind to Christians.

whacked_new 18y ago

The Bible is worth a read if you have any interest in history, which most readers here probably do. IIRC it is the most influential literary work in existence, and that alone is a reason to read it.

krav 18y ago
Um, which part is history: the burning bush part or who begat who?
- aaronblohowiak 18y ago
  Wow, what ignorance. The course of civilization has been profoundly influenced by the Abrahamic traditions, and within the Abrahamic holy books lay the recounting of the tribes' histories and developments.
  - krav 18y ago
    Dude, how do you measure history? Check out the history of the Indians and Asia. While the Abrahamic(s) were a bunch of smelly tribes in the desert, the Asians were already charting the stars.
    - patrickg-zill 18y ago
      Yes, and the Chinese invented the printing press. But what did they do with it - nothing.
    - aaronblohowiak 18y ago
      Smelly? How do you know that? I made no cross-cultural comparison, I merely suggested that the influence of one group was of great intensity. Your refutation is kind of like me saying "peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are great!" and you saying "dude, how do you measure greatness? a bowl of french onion soup is better than that child's food -- it is served in restaurants." You tried to change the argument about the value of the bible as a historical document into an argument about the relative technological achievements of different societies.