3 ms·

Yet, many people use windows and I still miss X forwarding. RDP and VNC are just not a replacement for being able to start 3 different programs on 3 different r

Yet, many people use windows and I still miss X forwarding. RDP and VNC are just not a replacement for being able to start 3 different programs on 3 different remote computers, and have them all sitting together on screen next to each other.

u801e 6y ago
You should look into xrdp. It's like X forwarding, but with the ability to detach and reattach to a running application like screen or tmux.
vladvasiliu 6y ago
Technically, RDP allows you to only launch one application as opposed to a whole desktop. They call that RemoteApp. That you can't just launch that on every machine you want (in particular non server installs) is more a limitation of Microsoft's licensing model than of the protocol itself. For me, from a usability point of view, RDP runs circles around the other solutions. I've used this fairly often during the lockdowns and even over a shitty DSL connection there was close to no lag.
- MereInterest 6y ago
  RDP works well if you want to connect to a remote machine, then work only on that machine for a significant amount of time. For me, I need to switch in and out of several different RDP sessions, which is a nightmare. Alt tab works either within a session if full screened, or within the local computer if not full screened. That means I need to also periodically use ctrl alt break to switch between full screen and windowed. In windowed mode, I can either have scrollbars to view a subsection, or I can scale the window. Doing the right thing, changing the size of the remote desktop when the local window is resized, isn't an option because that is set at connection time. Sometimes, for firewall reasons, I need to have needed RDP sessions. At this point, everything performs poorly, and I need to drag the overlayed blue bars off of each other, then interact with one or the other. I miss SSH, and want better support for it. Nested connections can be handled with SSH tunnels. Text connections are fast enough to do anything on the slowest of connections. If I need a GUI, I can open up a single window through X11, without additional setup with RemoteApp. Windows remote management through RDP is slow, clunky, error-prone, and inflexible by comparison.
  - vladvasiliu 6y ago
    My point was that RDP, the protocol, works very well and is able to adapt to network conditions. For your "nested session", the problem is that the adaptive nature of the protocol breaks down if the first hop has a very good connection to the destination. However, you're holding^w using it wrong. In this kind of scenario, I think MS recommends using a remote desktop gateway, which also works very well. I think one of the great advantages of RDP over ssh X forwarding is that it can use UDP. I definitely dislike how you have to have a Windows server installation and specific license to set up remote app, though. But I've filed this under "it's Microsoft, what can you expect?". I also find windows administration horrible, be it via remote desktop or keyboard plugged directly in the server. I grew up with Linux and macOS, so it was always a pain when I absolutely had to give someone a hand with something windows-related (my client has a bunch of Windows servers). But still, I'm not the kind to throw away the baby with the bathwater and to think that if I generally dislike and would avoid a company's products every single thing that they do is bad. I really wish Linux could have something similar to RDP in performance. It makes me sad when I vnc to a computer across the room and the thing lags more than RDP to some windows box in another country. edit: Regarding your having to work with several RDP sessions at the same time, it baffles me that the worst RDP client I have ever used is the windows one. I don't use windows on my machines, and the Linux client (Remmina) is absolutely a dream, especially when running on i3 (so there's no conflict with win / alt-tab / etc). Also, MS's mac client works very well and there's no key conflicts there either. You may want to look into the new Remote Desktop app on windows (not quite sure what it's called, it's on the windows store). It now supports window resizing and easier switching between sessions.
  - JonathonW 6y ago
    > In windowed mode, I can either have scrollbars to view a subsection, or I can scale the window. Doing the right thing, changing the size of the remote desktop when the local window is resized, isn't an option because that is set at connection time. Side note: if the server is running Windows 8.1 or later (or the equivalent server versions, Server 2012 R2 or later), this isn't the case any more-- RDP sessions can be resized freely at any time. Naturally, the built-in RDP client that comes with Windows doesn't support this (because, of course, why would it?), but the UWP Remote Desktop app in the Windows Store does (as does the current Mac client).
- JonathonW 6y ago
  You just got me to do a little digging... apparently, as of Windows 10, RemoteApp itself isn't restricted by licensing (at least, any more than Remote Desktop itself is)-- Windows 10 Pro (and Enterprise) can now host RemoteApp applications. The catch is that the UI to configure RemoteApp isn't present on client versions of Windows. It can be configured manually (by editing the registry then creating RDP files by hand), or there are open source tools that will do the work themselves: https://github.com/kimmknight/remoteapptool https://github.com/kimmknight/remoteapptool Somewhat outdated Microsoft docs on how to do this by hand: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-security-and/remoteapp-for-hyper-v-vdi-deployment/ba-p/246979 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-security-an...
JoBrad 6y ago
RemoteApp mode for RDP lets you interact with server-hosted apps like a client-hosted one. Also, I recall using apps with rdesktop in seamless mode, which worked pretty well. https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-security-and/introducing-remoteapp-and-desktop-connections/ba-p/246803 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-security-an...

u801e 6y ago

You should look into xrdp. It's like X forwarding, but with the ability to detach and reattach to a running application like screen or tmux.

vladvasiliu 6y ago

Technically, RDP allows you to only launch one application as opposed to a whole desktop. They call that RemoteApp. That you can't just launch that on every machine you want (in particular non server installs) is more a limitation of Microsoft's licensing model than of the protocol itself. For me, from a usability point of view, RDP runs circles around the other solutions. I've used this fairly often during the lockdowns and even over a shitty DSL connection there was close to no lag.

MereInterest 6y ago
RDP works well if you want to connect to a remote machine, then work only on that machine for a significant amount of time. For me, I need to switch in and out of several different RDP sessions, which is a nightmare. Alt tab works either within a session if full screened, or within the local computer if not full screened. That means I need to also periodically use ctrl alt break to switch between full screen and windowed. In windowed mode, I can either have scrollbars to view a subsection, or I can scale the window. Doing the right thing, changing the size of the remote desktop when the local window is resized, isn't an option because that is set at connection time. Sometimes, for firewall reasons, I need to have needed RDP sessions. At this point, everything performs poorly, and I need to drag the overlayed blue bars off of each other, then interact with one or the other. I miss SSH, and want better support for it. Nested connections can be handled with SSH tunnels. Text connections are fast enough to do anything on the slowest of connections. If I need a GUI, I can open up a single window through X11, without additional setup with RemoteApp. Windows remote management through RDP is slow, clunky, error-prone, and inflexible by comparison.
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
  My point was that RDP, the protocol, works very well and is able to adapt to network conditions. For your "nested session", the problem is that the adaptive nature of the protocol breaks down if the first hop has a very good connection to the destination. However, you're holding^w using it wrong. In this kind of scenario, I think MS recommends using a remote desktop gateway, which also works very well. I think one of the great advantages of RDP over ssh X forwarding is that it can use UDP. I definitely dislike how you have to have a Windows server installation and specific license to set up remote app, though. But I've filed this under "it's Microsoft, what can you expect?". I also find windows administration horrible, be it via remote desktop or keyboard plugged directly in the server. I grew up with Linux and macOS, so it was always a pain when I absolutely had to give someone a hand with something windows-related (my client has a bunch of Windows servers). But still, I'm not the kind to throw away the baby with the bathwater and to think that if I generally dislike and would avoid a company's products every single thing that they do is bad. I really wish Linux could have something similar to RDP in performance. It makes me sad when I vnc to a computer across the room and the thing lags more than RDP to some windows box in another country. edit: Regarding your having to work with several RDP sessions at the same time, it baffles me that the worst RDP client I have ever used is the windows one. I don't use windows on my machines, and the Linux client (Remmina) is absolutely a dream, especially when running on i3 (so there's no conflict with win / alt-tab / etc). Also, MS's mac client works very well and there's no key conflicts there either. You may want to look into the new Remote Desktop app on windows (not quite sure what it's called, it's on the windows store). It now supports window resizing and easier switching between sessions.
- JonathonW 6y ago
  > In windowed mode, I can either have scrollbars to view a subsection, or I can scale the window. Doing the right thing, changing the size of the remote desktop when the local window is resized, isn't an option because that is set at connection time. Side note: if the server is running Windows 8.1 or later (or the equivalent server versions, Server 2012 R2 or later), this isn't the case any more-- RDP sessions can be resized freely at any time. Naturally, the built-in RDP client that comes with Windows doesn't support this (because, of course, why would it?), but the UWP Remote Desktop app in the Windows Store does (as does the current Mac client).
JonathonW 6y ago
You just got me to do a little digging... apparently, as of Windows 10, RemoteApp itself isn't restricted by licensing (at least, any more than Remote Desktop itself is)-- Windows 10 Pro (and Enterprise) can now host RemoteApp applications. The catch is that the UI to configure RemoteApp isn't present on client versions of Windows. It can be configured manually (by editing the registry then creating RDP files by hand), or there are open source tools that will do the work themselves: https://github.com/kimmknight/remoteapptool https://github.com/kimmknight/remoteapptool Somewhat outdated Microsoft docs on how to do this by hand: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-security-and/remoteapp-for-hyper-v-vdi-deployment/ba-p/246979 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-security-an...

JoBrad 6y ago

RemoteApp mode for RDP lets you interact with server-hosted apps like a client-hosted one. Also, I recall using apps with rdesktop in seamless mode, which worked pretty well. https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-security-and/introducing-remoteapp-and-desktop-connections/ba-p/246803 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-security-an...