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Relativty – An open-source VR headset

819 points by karanganesan 6y ago

WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
I actually love this but I wonder if inside-out tracking using webcams might be better (although you may need more oomph on the processing side).
chmod775 6y ago
Sounds like you could sell this pre-assembled for $300 and it'd still blow all the other headsets out of the water. Taken at face value this sounds pretty great.
- easton 6y ago
  The problem is roomscale, although if you bumped up the budget by $30 dollars I bet you could put the sensors needed for 6DOF in there. Then it’d be great! (Without the sensors, most SteamVR games would be janky until their model is improved)
- ralusek 6y ago
  We know nothing of how performant it is. The reason ALL VR isn't at 2K 120fps isn't because other companies don't know how to do that -- most of the technological hurdle comes from the PC producing those outputs -- it's just that there are clearly performance standards companies hold themselves to in order to consider the product fit for a general audience. In regards to the room scale tracking alone: > Precision and freedom of movement are still very far from dedicated sensors, however, we believe that the model can be trained and improved by orders of magnitude. Whereas, say, Oculus, already has room scale tracking down-pat. The only way I see this as "blowing all other headsets out of the water" is if the way they're able to achieve 2k 120fps where others could not is Relativty simply being willing to cater to a much smaller audience of high-end PC owners that a mass-reaching product like Oculus wouldn't limit themselves to. Anyway, this whole thing is really cool, and I want to see more of it, I just doubt that the correct way to think of it is as something already capable of blowing competition out of the water.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- marcinzm 6y ago
  As others have pointed out the displays aren't 2k and they aren't 120hz and they cost almost $200 alone. So none of the marketing is true.
yetihehe 6y ago
Just their suggested displays cost $195 (2 displays with driver pcb). Otherwise, very nice.
- andoriyu 6y ago
  That's for 2k @ 120fps. You're free to use any display pair.
AndrewSChapman 6y ago
Ever since Facebook bought Oculus I've really hoped something like this would spring up. I really really want it to succeed and would be happy to back it on Kickstarter or similar. How do we ensure that these projects don't end up being bought out by Facebook or Google?
- TheRealSteel 6y ago
  If we make sure it's licensed properly, that's not possible, right? They could hire certain people but if it's all open source, we can at worst just fork it. According to the GitHub it appears to be under GPL v3. I'm not qualified to state whether this applies to the hardware design or just the software. I certainly wouldn't want to put any effort in to a project where the IP can be bought.
  - vinceguidry 6y ago
    Being under an open source (the term you’re really looking for is free software) license isn’t enough to protect a project. You have to maintain forward momentum. A company can buy the trademark, and the company or group of people providing that forward momentum, like Oracle did with Sun, and then, like China assimilating Hong Kong, it’s just a matter of time. Solaris died, Java got wholly corporatized and free software mostly moved on. Stallman, of course, realized this a long time ago and started a group of people, in the legal form of a charitable foundation, to keep that forward momentum going. To his telling, his Hail Mary was phenomenally successful. If what you want is to work on a platform that will stay free no matter what, your best bet is to align with the FSF. They have the most momentum, the fewest corporate threats, and a long enough memory to keep it that way.
    - johnyzee 6y ago
      > Java got wholly corporatized and free software mostly moved on ?... The Java community was completely unaffected by the Oracle transition and is as strong as ever. Of course, Java wasn't open source (or "free") to begin with.
jonplackett 6y ago
It's like Oculus redux. Give it a few months and Google/Microsoft/Amazon will probably buy it up.
- DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
  If Relativity ends up with a competitive design, I agree that it's a risk. But I'd rather hear from Relativity's creators before assuming it could go the same way.
- criddell 6y ago
  If the product turns out great they might buy it as an aqui-hire. What has Facebook gained from their purchase of Oculus? At the time I thought it was a pretty shrewd move by Facebook but six years later I'm not sure they got much for the $2 billion they spent.
  - kipchak 6y ago
    Judging by the demos[1] they've shown and changes they've made to the Oculus software like homes, it seems like their long term goal is for it to be the basis of a google glass like system that's more environmentally aware and collecting lots of environmental mapping data for FB, and a VR facetime/The matrix but with Xbox Live avatars-ey thing. I think adoption is probably a ways out, but if people wind up wanting more than Teams/Zoom/Discord/Facetime and so on it sets them up. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTa8zn0RNVM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTa8zn0RNVM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijmnk5L767U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijmnk5L767U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JD6F9XYrMQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JD6F9XYrMQ
    - criddell 6y ago
      By the time any of that is ready, their purchase of Oculus will be more than a decade in the past. I think the acquisition was probably a mistake, but for Facebook blowing $2 billion isn't a very big mistake. From my perspective as a consumer and somebody who was very interested in VR 6 years ago, I wish Oculus had either remained independent or had been purchased by somebody that was actually going to do something with the technology before a decade passes. I think Facebook's purchase of Oculus is one reason VR has lost so much energy and interest (Magic Leap's hilariously bad execution in AR hurts VR too).
pedrocr 6y ago
The screens are 1440x1440 and square format makes a lot of sense for this application. They're best described as 2MP instead of 2K.
- noxer 6y ago
  Jees, pls dont. MP should not be used for display resolutions. It's 1440x1440 or 1440p 1:1 But yes definitely not 2K.
  - pedrocr 6y ago
    For a screen that you're placing in front of each eye, giving the total resolution actually sounds pretty appropriate. Particularly since although this is technically 1440 lines it only has as many pixels as 1080p resolution, which won't be obvious to most. Given all the different aspect ratios if screens started being quoted as megapixels and a format ratio we'd actually be much better off than with the current mess.
    - DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
      Since head-mounted displays put the screen a mostly fixed distance from the eye, I wonder if resolution is best described in terms of solid angles[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_angle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_angle
      - jaywalk 6y ago
        No, not at all. Solid angles could describe how big the display looks, but absolutely nothing about its resolution.
        DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
        What I meant was to provide both of the following measurements: (1) Solid angle of each individual pixel. (Assuming that typical screens and optics are used, I'd expect this value to vary depending on the location of a given pixel. So something like (average(solid angle of each individual pixel in the display)) could be advertised. (2) Solid angle of the overall virtual image.
Mooty 6y ago
Bravo les gars :) Sincerly nice project, I would do one myself if I had the time or knowledge. What could be really nice is that make a DIY video to demonstrate it's easy and link to where we can buy different stuff (and put a affiliate link, please). Also suggest controllers that are compatible with steam if that exists.
noxer 6y ago
Daily reminder: 2K doesn't really exist. Yes by definition anything with around 2000 pixels vertical would be 2K but that would mean FHD is 2K because it almost 2000 pixels wide. The display in question here is 1440x1440 That is not 2K. Sure there are two next to each other that would mean 2880 pixels horizontal but the image you see cant have this resolution. Also that would be 3K not 2K. So pls everyone stop the nonsense with the Ks unless used properly like if you actually mean DCI 4K then its appropriate to say so. Everything else is marketing nonsense. /endrant
- anilakar 6y ago
  Having 1440p screens would have been great two years ago. The baseline currently is Index with 1700ish vertical pixels, and competitors such as HP and Pimax have pushed past the "4K" (2160+) pixel mark. Disclaimer: I'm a sim game enthusiast and don't play any titles where the game designer can just change the gameplay mechanics and UI to work on screens with a low PPD.
  - folli 6y ago
    Any sim game recommendations that fit your criteria?
    - anilakar 6y ago
      Digital Combat Simulator (DCS World) has some really tiny text on the cockpit dials and screens, and distant targets are often only a few pixels in size. Those 2000+ vertical pixel HMDs I mentioned don't have any issues with cockpit details whereas my older Samsung Odyssey+ required constant use of the zoom button. Furthermore, the performance hit when upgrading to higher resolutions is negligible. Smaller pixel densities require heavy supersampling to look good whereas higher density displays can be run at or near their native resolution.
      - quit32 6y ago
        DCS is so cool. I feel like I need to quit my job / be single again in order to learn it though. I got the rift in order to play it only to realize that learning DCS from the ground up requires a lot of keyboard input / referencing cheat sheets so need to be pretty proficient with it before you can't see your hands and as you mentioned the resolution is not quite good enough in rift to really see things with much detail though it is still a fun experience to try out. Looking forward to playing it on a future headset.
detritus 6y ago
Good luck to them, and I've bookmarked it to keep tabs on it in future, but that is an infuriating and in my opinion - very poor - choice of brand name.
- andrew_c_v 6y ago
  Can you give more details on this? Is that name already associated with something else?
  - detritus 6y ago
    ‘Relativity’ would anyway be generic, non-descriptive for this product domain and cliche, but then to mispell it just to 'get a domain' (or whatever the logic was) seems poorly considered - every time I see 'relativty' it reads as a typo. Choosing names is Hard though, I appreciate.
- DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
  I agree that "relativity" isn't a great name: it's a mouthful at 5 syllables, and I don't see a logical connection between the name and the product. But I don't understand why the name would be infuriating. Can you explain?
  - ColeyG 6y ago
    Not the OP but I thought it was miss-spelled at first.
  - alecfreud 6y ago
    The name is "Relativty" without the last 'i' That's the issue. It's an awkward 4 syllables.
    - gegtik 6y ago
      "Relative-T"?
  - SamBam 6y ago
utopcell 6y ago
This might be a fun weekend project to work on, but cannot be built for $200. The displays alone (and their driver PCB that accepts DisplayPort) cost $195. They are also not 2K but rather 1440x1440 (or 2.0736M pixels). Maybe the displays were cheaper when they built this. They also hookup a 6-axis tracking chip (MPU-6050) to an Arduino board and feed it to a PC via usb. Even if tracking was working perfectly, this would be a cut down version of an Oculus Go, which additionally has smartphone electronics integrated, can run VirtualDesktop, and can be had for $150 as of this moment.
- konjin 6y ago
  Great, is the oculus go open source?
  - solarengineer 6y ago
    Not a valid retort, IMO, to a comment that was only making an observation on the prices of the parts.
    - gegtik 6y ago
      Counterpoint: the comment was not only making an observation on the prices of the parts.
    - wolco 6y ago
      It is a valid retort and trying to hide that fact when comparing doesn't do it justice.
      - marcinzm 6y ago
        The fact is well known and obvious to anyone so I don't see how anything is being hidden by anyone.
        wolco 6y ago
        The people in the know who believe it's obvious will be the same people who know the price of an oculus. As for the rest of us. We neither know the price of an oculus $150? or that an oculus isn't as open source as other products. Valid point for the rest of us.
swalsh 6y ago
I've been hoping someone would create an open source version of the lighthouse technology. I think that technology could be huge outside of VR. Inside VR, I just want more custom hardware... I want VR feet.
- archi42 6y ago
  Isn't the lighthouse system relatively open? I recall the analog receiver circuitry is relatively simple, and Valve cooperated with an IC manufacturer to get rid of the analog stuff (or, more precisely: move it into an IC). The IC was intended to be not be exclusively for Valve alone. Of course that doesn't help with the base stations, and might still violate [Valves' or other's] patents if used in an actual product.
  - zlsa 6y ago
    > Valve is now making SteamVR Tracking fully available to other companies, without licensing fees. > There is no certification from Valve necessary. Ship the product you want to build, whenever you think it's ready. I don't believe it's strictly open source, but it's certainly far more open than Facebook's ecosystem. Source: https://partner.steamgames.com/vrlicensing https://partner.steamgames.com/vrlicensing
- Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
  > I want VR feet. That exists, and has existed for a couple years now through the Vive Tracker [0]. It's essentially a puck that acts as another receiver for Lighthouse tracking. You typically strap them onto an object or body part and it gets tracked. Search YouTube for "full body tracking" and you'll see it in action, though it's mostly just a bunch of silliness in VRChat since very few games actually take advantage of it. With each tracker being $99, adding both feet and your hips will run you $300. [0] https://www.vive.com/us/accessory/vive-tracker/ https://www.vive.com/us/accessory/vive-tracker/
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sleepybrett 6y ago
Where do you source the lenses?
- ourcat 6y ago
  There's an AliExpress link in the README of the Github repo. Though, I'd imagine you could use ones from cheaper 'phone-to-face' Google Cardboard-style ones.
  - archi42 6y ago
    Lenses are actually not that irrelevant for this application. There is a huge difference between some cheap plastic and camera-grade glass. You don't want [excessive] chromatic aberrations, or [excessive] "God rays" (the Vive has that effect), or other optical artifacts. Optics is similar to electronics: With high school physics it's all quite simple, but with high school physics a transistor can switch nearly infinitely fast ;-)
    - ourcat 6y ago
      That's true. I actually have a few cheap card-like gadgets. And they're certainly not fresnel lenses. ;)
andybak 6y ago
I'll repeat a comment I made on Reddit: I was scanning the page trying to understand how you were doing positional tracking. Took me a while to realise that's what you mean by "Experimental room-scaling" I'd suggest that this isn't the best wording. Call it "positional tracking" or "6DOF" or something. The whole "room scale" thing was confusing at the start and isn't used much nowadays (Is seated 6DOF VR "room scale"? It's ambiguous and irrelevent for most purposes) I'd also say that I think most people assume that being SteamVR compatibile implies having 6DOF tracking of head and hands. Most software simply won't work unless you have this. How experimental is experimental?
- SamBam 6y ago
  Oh, I thought it was a cool mode that made your current room look huge or tiny. A sort of "Alice in Wonderland" mode.
  - andybak 6y ago
    Yeah. The term arose around the time the Vive was released to distinguish against the Oculus Rift. It was a fairly subtle distinction - the Rift at that time was optimised for front-facing experiences because it came with two cameras you usually mounted on each side of your monitor. If you moved out of their cone or occluded them by turning around too much then it would lose tracking so most games assumed you'd mostly be facing forward. The Vive on the other hand had tracking that was usually mounted in opposite corners of the room. Two trackers were more than capable of covering an average sized room and the only limitation on your movement was cable tangle. The Rift tracking got a lot better eventually - even with two cameras. The other meaning of the term is sometimes to distinguish between VR that can track the headset position (6DOF) as well as it's rotation (3DOF). But all serious VR is 6DOF nowadays. 3DOF is pretty much the domain of "slide your phone in this thing" VR or headsets that are intended mainly for viewing 360 video. So - two different meanings of "room scale" that mean quite different things.
- c22 6y ago
  I understood what they meant by "room-scaling" immediately and I've only ever used a VR headset one time about 4 years ago. On the other hand, I can surmise from my experience with robot arms that "DOF" likely stands for degrees of freedom, but I would have had no clue what "6DOF" meant in terms of VR.
Fabricio20 6y ago
One interesting thing I noticed is that this project ALSO doesn't seem to have a controller. You can't really play SteamVR games without at least one! (Issue #50) You can grab a Samsung VR for very cheap, put a phone on it and do VirtualDesktop magic, but you are still gonna struggle without controllers. Same for Google Cardboard and other similar projects. There's some very cheap controllers you can get, with base stations for tracking like the Nolo-Home, but they are still quite behind the tracking precision and latency of some "top-of-the-shelf" headsets. It's an interesting idea and I hope the developments on it go forward, specially since the recent Facebook/Oculus announcement.
- gri3v3r 6y ago
  Unfortunately, these projects have been discontinued.
- nimazeighami 6y ago
  There are many great SteamVR games that support mouse and keyboard or an XBOX controller. Trover Saves the Universe is one of them. I don't think the lack of controller tracking is a deal-breaker for those who want to get an open source VR experience.
- skykooler 6y ago
  This has gotten me wondering whether there are any DIY projects for Lighthouse-compatible controllers?
  - detaro 6y ago
    I seem to remember that someone had made a Lighthouse receiver for drones.
    - detaro 6y ago
      Might have been this: https://github.com/ashtuchkin/vive-diy-position-sensor https://github.com/ashtuchkin/vive-diy-position-sensor
MrGilbert 6y ago
It's interesting how a lot of commenters are writing "Relativity" instead of "Relativty". I also fell for this at first. Makes it easy to mistype the url, if you were to visit it later on.
- martin-adams 6y ago
  Google will probably auto correct any searches for it as well
IanSanders 6y ago
Can I point out, that's a nice domain name.
- maneesh 6y ago
  Did you notice it's missing the final 'i'?
  - IanSanders 6y ago
    Ha, I did not.
beams_of_light 6y ago
These guys were 15 years old when they started, and are now 20. That's amazing, great work!
ortusdux 6y ago
Can anyone recommend an elegant method to 3d map a face? If I were to print one of these housings, I would at a minimum adjust it to my PD, but it would be great to also contour the fit to my face.
- ourcat 6y ago
  I did a similar thing to design a 3d printed mask. I used an iOS app called ScandyPro which gave me a mesh which I then imported into Fusion360 and modelled some lines/layers of the curves around my face. Then I performed a 'loft' between them. The result was a perfect fit.
ourcat 6y ago
If it supports 5GHz Wifi, something like this could eventually work well with VirtualDesktop (An incredibly useful app which makes the Oculus Quest truly wireless and capable of playing all SteamVR games from your PC). Keeping all the GPU overheads off the headset is the way to go. (And will also be seen eventually with future '5G' wireless systems (not to be confused with '5GHz' Wifi) which will put that 'grunt' in the cloud.)
- Kiro 6y ago
  OT but how is the lag with Oculus Quest + VirtualDesktop? Let's say I wanted to play Half-Life: Alyx.
  - icebergonfire 6y ago
    On my Oculus Quest I have completed a playthrough of Alyx and a few other games of different genres, no issues and no delay whatsoever. It feels magical, in a way that feels like it must be cheating and the spell is going to break anytime... yet it doesn't. To pre-empt a few of the obvious asterisks: - "No latency" is physically impossible. If you play twitchy music rythm games you will indeed manage to notice. - You must have a good wifi ac router. - Your gaming host must be wired to that router. - To minimize network hoops, all of this should happen in the same room. Every milisecond counts.
    - skykooler 6y ago
      > Every millisecond counts. Not really sure that follows. For a 20ft room, it only takes a wifi signal 20 nanoseconds to cross it, and an ethernet signal around 30 nanoseconds. Your room would need to be over a hundred miles wide to add a millisecond of delay, disregarding stuff like repeaters.
      - ta8908695 6y ago
        I think the same room is to have good signal strength to minimize dropped/repeated packets. The transmission time won't be noticeable but the signal to noise ratio may decrease fairly quickly with distance and obstacles.
neonhat 6y ago
Seems like a fun project, but the experience will be garbage compared to Oculus/Vive.
skellystudios 6y ago
To the creators: this is a really incredible achievement, especially to have done at age 15, and really well communicated. Please don't get disheartened by the mass of comments around this not actually being a $200 headset[1] or your unusual[2] spelling. This is freaking awesome, please keep it up! [1] It definitely would be cool to see some sort of parts list, but that's not really the point here. [2] Clever domain hack, IMO
- White_Wolf 6y ago
  I think a lot of people are missing what I think are 3 main points before moaning about everything else: 1. It's freaking open source 2. It's DIY fun 3. It's the bare VR without being an over-engineered device that reports your farts to the manufacturer. I can only respect and envy the guys for pulling this off.
  - vlovich123 6y ago
    Doesn't the Steam dependency mean the reports are going to Valve?
    - oooooooooooow 6y ago
      Why would this be steam (or anything) dependent -- am I missing something?
      - Shared404 6y ago
        It looked to me like it was Steam compatible, not steam dependent. However, I can see where the idea would come from, because they do talk a lot about Steam on the site.
        vlovich123 6y ago
        What would you be able to do with the headset aside from connect it to Steam? They could add support for OpenXR but OpenXR is just starting to get traction and that's on the application developer side. I don't know how widespread the adoption of the HMD agnostic bits of OpenXR are.
1run9 6y ago
From a financial aspect, I think the soldering ion and a 3d printer would cost more than $200, plus $200 on parts. So with $400+, i would consider buying an Oculus? From bottom of my heart, hats off to those kids.
- Aachen 6y ago
  > the soldering ion and a 3d printer would cost more than $200 That sounds odd, a bit like saying a car and a smartphone holder together would cost more than X. A soldering iron is, what, 15 euros? And a cheap 3d printer like twenty times that?
the_hoser 6y ago
This is really great. I wish people would stop comparing this effort to commercial products, though. Like most open-source hardware, the proprietary competitor will always be the better value proposition, if that's all you care about.
VectorLock 6y ago
I never knew they made these boards that take two LCDs and have an adapter board with a DisplayPort (port) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32975198897.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32975198897.html
chrisallick 6y ago
nothing brings out the haters like a job well done. great project. people will benefit from it.
8K832d7tNmiQ 6y ago
why not just called it OpenVR? Shorter and more to the point IMO.
- ehsankia 6y ago
  Well OpenVR already is a thing. It's an API by Valve for interfacing with generic VR hardware.
ozten 6y ago
Amazing work, congrats! I think it is smart to build on top of SteamVR and PCVR, but... I would love to drop my Oculus Quest for a DIY open-source headset. My #1 requirement is stand-alone. No cable, no wires. I don't own a gaming PC, so the Quest has been a great way for me to experience 6DOF VR.
chaostheory 6y ago
This is awesome. I'm glad we have have insurance in case no one fills the void of HTC leaving. You can argue that Valve is, but given the massive back orders of the Index and their discontinuing of their controller and streaming box; I'm not totally confident. Now we just need controllers and maybe even base stations.
- Fej 6y ago
  Valve discontinued their controller and streaming box because they did not sell - to get rid of their stock, they had to put them on fire sale. They're still supporting the controller and afaik the streaming box as well. The controller was innovative but often regarded as awkward, and the streaming box wasn't particularly special. The Valve Index on the other hand has redefined the high-end VR market and is selling out accordingly. I've tried most of the consumer VR solutions on the market and the Index "knuckles" controllers blow everything else out of the water, it's not even close. Oculus has dropped out of that market, opting to produce more affordable but somewhat less capable headsets and controllers. I don't see HTC turning it around as they don't have the name recognition or the capital and their tech is already weaker. Point being is that Valve owns the top-end of the VR market already and this project, while impressive and definitely promising, is not competing with Valve. It might in the future, with a lot of work, but it's not insurance against a Valve dominion. There might not even be room in this niche market for more than one competitor, which is awful but that's what we're looking at.
  - chaostheory 6y ago
    One reason the Steam controller didn't sell is that users had to figure out configuration schemes on their own instead of Valve being proactive with developers and publishing houses. I agree that the Index, especially the knuckles blows everything away, but I'm already seeing the same issue that the Steam controller suffered from pop up with the knuckles. You're right about Oculus too, and I hope that you'll be right about Valve staying in the game. I definitely want to keep using base stations instead of unreliable and heavy headset cameras. I want full body tracking to gain traction and that won't happen if external base stations die off.
- 6y ago
fouric 6y ago
> We started Relativty because after watching Sword Art Online This little fact alone makes the background story way funnier than most tech origin stories I've heard. And being able to do PCB layout and system design at 15-16? Kudos to Maxand Gabriel.
- imba404 6y ago
  Hopefully the design won't kill users on launch day.
  - Shared404 6y ago
    For those downvoting, this is the plot of Sword Art Online.
  - m4rtink 6y ago
    It's fine - people will be still perfectly willing to continue using it after it does that. ;-) (Plot of later part of Sword Art Online - really.)
    - imba404 6y ago
      The second generation of gear claims to have limiters to prevent nerve damage. Kinda like cars installing seat belts and air-bags.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
It's a great start at a young age, congratulations and all the best! I'm not into VR, but can this setup be used to create a 'Wearable low latency display for computers'[1] i.e a wired video headset? None of the current video headsets seem to work well according to the reviews be it $800 Ziess Cinemizer or $200 Avegant Glyph. [1]https://needgap.com/problems/16-wearable-low-latency-display-for-computers-display-wearables https://needgap.com/problems/16-wearable-low-latency-display...
- ahupp 6y ago
  A typical Apple "Retina" display has 57 pixels/degree[0], held at ~10 inches. VR screens are roughly similar resolution but held far closer to the eye, so pixels/degree is proportionately less. All this mean that we'll need dramatic increases in display resolution before it's pleasant to read text in VR for long periods of time. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display
  - davidzweig 6y ago
    I think a 'video headset' doesn't try to such a wide angle as a 'VR headset.' I would really like one for programming on, as it's more portable than a big screen.
- nimazeighami 6y ago
  There's a good one coming out soon, the Cinera Edge Elite.
  - CGamesPlay 6y ago
    https://www.cinera.net https://www.cinera.net It's a KickStarter, so I guess "coming out soon" is pretty speculative, but that's the link for it. Interestingly, I googled this and the permalink to this comment was actually the top result, 1 hour after the comment was made.
  - Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
    It's aimed at watching movies, running android likely for the support of streaming apps; What I want is a computer monitor on my eyes and so this either underperforms for that need or is an overkill. OP project may in fact solve this, I need to look deeper into the tech.
lxe 6y ago
Great brand name. Awesome write up. "We made Relativty in my bedroom with a soldering iron and a 3D printer and we expect you to do the same: build it yourself." Soldering SMD components sounds daunting, so kudos to you for this. Not sure why the pedantics about 2K and the price in these comments...
- lilSebastian 6y ago
  > Soldering SMD components sounds daunting, It really isn't, watching some videos learning some techniques. Practice. The same statement could be made about most things that people aren't familiar with or haven't spent any time working to learn.
  - lxe 6y ago
    Just because you can get good at something, doesn't mean it's not hard :)
    - spurgu 6y ago
      I know what you're getting at, but anything you're passionate about doesn't feel as hard as it does to people who are not. There are so many things in life that I think are nonsensically complicated and I have a hard time grasping why anyone would ever want to waste time on them, while I know how to do a lot of things that "normal people" consider outlandish - just because I spent tons of time researching and learning about a topic because I was interested in it. So yeah, if you're meh about VR headsets and "it would be kind of cool to have", just buy a Daydream - don't try to learn how to solder SMD's. :) If you want it enough you'll figure it out.
  - num 6y ago
    It's also worth note that manufacturers like JLCPCB have SMT Assembly Service which might be able to deliver fully assembled boards. I haven't looked at the gerber+BOM to verify.
  - ta8908695 6y ago
    As someone who has worked in an electronics lab and done lots of soldering, I can say your setup makes a huge difference. A great setup will make soldering SMD components a breeze, but a bad setup will make it very frustrating. Practice obviously helps but a nice soldering station with some kind of magnification will close the gap a whole lot faster.
agentdrtran 6y ago
This is extremely impressive and well-communicated!
AtlasBarfed 6y ago
Why isn't it RelaiVRty?
anigbrowl 6y ago
Looks very cool, but you are going to run into problems with the name because people are going to confuse it with https://www.relativity.com/ https://www.relativity.com/ That company sells a major legal document management platform, and has the standing, incentive, and capacity to drag Relativty into court for trademark infringement and easily win. The sheer number of people getting the word wrong on this HN thread is itself evidence of potential consumer confusion. Trademark infringement doesn't have to be wilful or malicious, and trademark holders are required to defend their marks or risk losing them through a legal doctrine called 'constructive abandonment' so it's probably only a matter of time before Relativity-the-legal-software-company sends a finger-wagging C&D letter to Relativty-the-bedroom-hackers. tl;dr find a new name or get sued.
neiman 6y ago
On a slightly related topic: are the open-source VR controllers?
keenmaster 6y ago
Considering how Palmer Luckey was just tinkering when he made the Oculus Rift, this can produce some useful innovation outside of the corporate environment.
jerrygoyal 6y ago
on a side note, I wish if there was a company like LEGO but for providing components for building DIY electronic gadgets especially small size home robots which gets some particular work done. for instance DIY wifi locks for doors, automated food dispenser for pets etc.
- zamboni-killer 6y ago
  Radio Shack could have done this.
- centimeter 6y ago
  People have tried to make kits like this but they never work out because a LEGO-like form factor is not flexible enough for 99% of projects. Electronics are already pretty LEGO-like conceptually; you just have to solder instead of snapping things together.
- moron4hire 6y ago
  Isn't that AdaFruit and Sparkfun?
spaceisballer 6y ago
This looks great. Is there anything on the horizon filling in the more inexpensive market that Windows Mixed Reality headsets were occupying?
libraryatnight 6y ago
This is really awesome. People doing things like this just makes me happy.
AGSYS 6y ago
The developers could add 6dof roomscale tracking relatively easily by adding an intel 265 (https://www.intelrealsense.com/tracking-camera-t265/ https://www.intelrealsense.com/tracking-camera-t265/). The unity integration is very plug and play. The 261 can also be used but must be bought in trays of 8.
armandoramires6 6y ago
Armandoramires65@gmail.com
i_type_loud 6y ago
test thread (please ignore, will delete after)
- i_type_loud 6y ago
  test thread (please ignore, will delete after)
  - i_type_loud 6y ago
    test thread (please ignore, will delete after)
    - i_type_loud 6y ago
      test thread (please ignore, will delete after)

819 points by karanganesan 6y ago

I actually love this but I wonder if inside-out tracking using webcams might be better (although you may need more oomph on the processing side).

chmod775 6y ago

Sounds like you could sell this pre-assembled for $300 and it'd still blow all the other headsets out of the water. Taken at face value this sounds pretty great.

easton 6y ago
The problem is roomscale, although if you bumped up the budget by $30 dollars I bet you could put the sensors needed for 6DOF in there. Then it’d be great! (Without the sensors, most SteamVR games would be janky until their model is improved)
ralusek 6y ago
We know nothing of how performant it is. The reason ALL VR isn't at 2K 120fps isn't because other companies don't know how to do that -- most of the technological hurdle comes from the PC producing those outputs -- it's just that there are clearly performance standards companies hold themselves to in order to consider the product fit for a general audience. In regards to the room scale tracking alone: > Precision and freedom of movement are still very far from dedicated sensors, however, we believe that the model can be trained and improved by orders of magnitude. Whereas, say, Oculus, already has room scale tracking down-pat. The only way I see this as "blowing all other headsets out of the water" is if the way they're able to achieve 2k 120fps where others could not is Relativty simply being willing to cater to a much smaller audience of high-end PC owners that a mass-reaching product like Oculus wouldn't limit themselves to. Anyway, this whole thing is really cool, and I want to see more of it, I just doubt that the correct way to think of it is as something already capable of blowing competition out of the water.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
marcinzm 6y ago
As others have pointed out the displays aren't 2k and they aren't 120hz and they cost almost $200 alone. So none of the marketing is true.

yetihehe 6y ago

Just their suggested displays cost $195 (2 displays with driver pcb). Otherwise, very nice.

andoriyu 6y ago
That's for 2k @ 120fps. You're free to use any display pair.

AndrewSChapman 6y ago

Ever since Facebook bought Oculus I've really hoped something like this would spring up. I really really want it to succeed and would be happy to back it on Kickstarter or similar. How do we ensure that these projects don't end up being bought out by Facebook or Google?

TheRealSteel 6y ago
If we make sure it's licensed properly, that's not possible, right? They could hire certain people but if it's all open source, we can at worst just fork it. According to the GitHub it appears to be under GPL v3. I'm not qualified to state whether this applies to the hardware design or just the software. I certainly wouldn't want to put any effort in to a project where the IP can be bought.
- vinceguidry 6y ago
  Being under an open source (the term you’re really looking for is free software) license isn’t enough to protect a project. You have to maintain forward momentum. A company can buy the trademark, and the company or group of people providing that forward momentum, like Oracle did with Sun, and then, like China assimilating Hong Kong, it’s just a matter of time. Solaris died, Java got wholly corporatized and free software mostly moved on. Stallman, of course, realized this a long time ago and started a group of people, in the legal form of a charitable foundation, to keep that forward momentum going. To his telling, his Hail Mary was phenomenally successful. If what you want is to work on a platform that will stay free no matter what, your best bet is to align with the FSF. They have the most momentum, the fewest corporate threats, and a long enough memory to keep it that way.
  - johnyzee 6y ago
    > Java got wholly corporatized and free software mostly moved on ?... The Java community was completely unaffected by the Oracle transition and is as strong as ever. Of course, Java wasn't open source (or "free") to begin with.

jonplackett 6y ago

It's like Oculus redux. Give it a few months and Google/Microsoft/Amazon will probably buy it up.

DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
If Relativity ends up with a competitive design, I agree that it's a risk. But I'd rather hear from Relativity's creators before assuming it could go the same way.
criddell 6y ago
If the product turns out great they might buy it as an aqui-hire. What has Facebook gained from their purchase of Oculus? At the time I thought it was a pretty shrewd move by Facebook but six years later I'm not sure they got much for the $2 billion they spent.
- kipchak 6y ago
  Judging by the demos[1] they've shown and changes they've made to the Oculus software like homes, it seems like their long term goal is for it to be the basis of a google glass like system that's more environmentally aware and collecting lots of environmental mapping data for FB, and a VR facetime/The matrix but with Xbox Live avatars-ey thing. I think adoption is probably a ways out, but if people wind up wanting more than Teams/Zoom/Discord/Facetime and so on it sets them up. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTa8zn0RNVM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTa8zn0RNVM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijmnk5L767U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijmnk5L767U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JD6F9XYrMQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JD6F9XYrMQ
  - criddell 6y ago
    By the time any of that is ready, their purchase of Oculus will be more than a decade in the past. I think the acquisition was probably a mistake, but for Facebook blowing $2 billion isn't a very big mistake. From my perspective as a consumer and somebody who was very interested in VR 6 years ago, I wish Oculus had either remained independent or had been purchased by somebody that was actually going to do something with the technology before a decade passes. I think Facebook's purchase of Oculus is one reason VR has lost so much energy and interest (Magic Leap's hilariously bad execution in AR hurts VR too).

pedrocr 6y ago

The screens are 1440x1440 and square format makes a lot of sense for this application. They're best described as 2MP instead of 2K.

noxer 6y ago
Jees, pls dont. MP should not be used for display resolutions. It's 1440x1440 or 1440p 1:1 But yes definitely not 2K.
- pedrocr 6y ago
  For a screen that you're placing in front of each eye, giving the total resolution actually sounds pretty appropriate. Particularly since although this is technically 1440 lines it only has as many pixels as 1080p resolution, which won't be obvious to most. Given all the different aspect ratios if screens started being quoted as megapixels and a format ratio we'd actually be much better off than with the current mess.
  - DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
    Since head-mounted displays put the screen a mostly fixed distance from the eye, I wonder if resolution is best described in terms of solid angles[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_angle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_angle
    - jaywalk 6y ago
      No, not at all. Solid angles could describe how big the display looks, but absolutely nothing about its resolution.
      - DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
        What I meant was to provide both of the following measurements: (1) Solid angle of each individual pixel. (Assuming that typical screens and optics are used, I'd expect this value to vary depending on the location of a given pixel. So something like (average(solid angle of each individual pixel in the display)) could be advertised. (2) Solid angle of the overall virtual image.

Mooty 6y ago

Bravo les gars :) Sincerly nice project, I would do one myself if I had the time or knowledge. What could be really nice is that make a DIY video to demonstrate it's easy and link to where we can buy different stuff (and put a affiliate link, please). Also suggest controllers that are compatible with steam if that exists.

noxer 6y ago

Daily reminder: 2K doesn't really exist. Yes by definition anything with around 2000 pixels vertical would be 2K but that would mean FHD is 2K because it almost 2000 pixels wide. The display in question here is 1440x1440 That is not 2K. Sure there are two next to each other that would mean 2880 pixels horizontal but the image you see cant have this resolution. Also that would be 3K not 2K. So pls everyone stop the nonsense with the Ks unless used properly like if you actually mean DCI 4K then its appropriate to say so. Everything else is marketing nonsense. /endrant

anilakar 6y ago
Having 1440p screens would have been great two years ago. The baseline currently is Index with 1700ish vertical pixels, and competitors such as HP and Pimax have pushed past the "4K" (2160+) pixel mark. Disclaimer: I'm a sim game enthusiast and don't play any titles where the game designer can just change the gameplay mechanics and UI to work on screens with a low PPD.
- folli 6y ago
  Any sim game recommendations that fit your criteria?
  - anilakar 6y ago
    Digital Combat Simulator (DCS World) has some really tiny text on the cockpit dials and screens, and distant targets are often only a few pixels in size. Those 2000+ vertical pixel HMDs I mentioned don't have any issues with cockpit details whereas my older Samsung Odyssey+ required constant use of the zoom button. Furthermore, the performance hit when upgrading to higher resolutions is negligible. Smaller pixel densities require heavy supersampling to look good whereas higher density displays can be run at or near their native resolution.
    - quit32 6y ago
      DCS is so cool. I feel like I need to quit my job / be single again in order to learn it though. I got the rift in order to play it only to realize that learning DCS from the ground up requires a lot of keyboard input / referencing cheat sheets so need to be pretty proficient with it before you can't see your hands and as you mentioned the resolution is not quite good enough in rift to really see things with much detail though it is still a fun experience to try out. Looking forward to playing it on a future headset.

detritus 6y ago

Good luck to them, and I've bookmarked it to keep tabs on it in future, but that is an infuriating and in my opinion - very poor - choice of brand name.

andrew_c_v 6y ago
Can you give more details on this? Is that name already associated with something else?
- detritus 6y ago
  ‘Relativity’ would anyway be generic, non-descriptive for this product domain and cliche, but then to mispell it just to 'get a domain' (or whatever the logic was) seems poorly considered - every time I see 'relativty' it reads as a typo. Choosing names is Hard though, I appreciate.
DoofusOfDeath 6y ago
I agree that "relativity" isn't a great name: it's a mouthful at 5 syllables, and I don't see a logical connection between the name and the product. But I don't understand why the name would be infuriating. Can you explain?
- ColeyG 6y ago
  Not the OP but I thought it was miss-spelled at first.
- alecfreud 6y ago
  The name is "Relativty" without the last 'i' That's the issue. It's an awkward 4 syllables.
  - gegtik 6y ago
    "Relative-T"?
- SamBam 6y ago

utopcell 6y ago

This might be a fun weekend project to work on, but cannot be built for $200. The displays alone (and their driver PCB that accepts DisplayPort) cost $195. They are also not 2K but rather 1440x1440 (or 2.0736M pixels). Maybe the displays were cheaper when they built this. They also hookup a 6-axis tracking chip (MPU-6050) to an Arduino board and feed it to a PC via usb. Even if tracking was working perfectly, this would be a cut down version of an Oculus Go, which additionally has smartphone electronics integrated, can run VirtualDesktop, and can be had for $150 as of this moment.

konjin 6y ago
Great, is the oculus go open source?
- solarengineer 6y ago
  Not a valid retort, IMO, to a comment that was only making an observation on the prices of the parts.
  - gegtik 6y ago
    Counterpoint: the comment was not only making an observation on the prices of the parts.
  - wolco 6y ago
    It is a valid retort and trying to hide that fact when comparing doesn't do it justice.
    - marcinzm 6y ago
      The fact is well known and obvious to anyone so I don't see how anything is being hidden by anyone.
      - wolco 6y ago
        The people in the know who believe it's obvious will be the same people who know the price of an oculus. As for the rest of us. We neither know the price of an oculus $150? or that an oculus isn't as open source as other products. Valid point for the rest of us.

swalsh 6y ago

I've been hoping someone would create an open source version of the lighthouse technology. I think that technology could be huge outside of VR. Inside VR, I just want more custom hardware... I want VR feet.

archi42 6y ago
Isn't the lighthouse system relatively open? I recall the analog receiver circuitry is relatively simple, and Valve cooperated with an IC manufacturer to get rid of the analog stuff (or, more precisely: move it into an IC). The IC was intended to be not be exclusively for Valve alone. Of course that doesn't help with the base stations, and might still violate [Valves' or other's] patents if used in an actual product.
- zlsa 6y ago
  > Valve is now making SteamVR Tracking fully available to other companies, without licensing fees. > There is no certification from Valve necessary. Ship the product you want to build, whenever you think it's ready. I don't believe it's strictly open source, but it's certainly far more open than Facebook's ecosystem. Source: https://partner.steamgames.com/vrlicensing https://partner.steamgames.com/vrlicensing
Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
> I want VR feet. That exists, and has existed for a couple years now through the Vive Tracker [0]. It's essentially a puck that acts as another receiver for Lighthouse tracking. You typically strap them onto an object or body part and it gets tracked. Search YouTube for "full body tracking" and you'll see it in action, though it's mostly just a bunch of silliness in VRChat since very few games actually take advantage of it. With each tracker being $99, adding both feet and your hips will run you $300. [0] https://www.vive.com/us/accessory/vive-tracker/ https://www.vive.com/us/accessory/vive-tracker/

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sleepybrett 6y ago

Where do you source the lenses?

ourcat 6y ago
There's an AliExpress link in the README of the Github repo. Though, I'd imagine you could use ones from cheaper 'phone-to-face' Google Cardboard-style ones.
- archi42 6y ago
  Lenses are actually not that irrelevant for this application. There is a huge difference between some cheap plastic and camera-grade glass. You don't want [excessive] chromatic aberrations, or [excessive] "God rays" (the Vive has that effect), or other optical artifacts. Optics is similar to electronics: With high school physics it's all quite simple, but with high school physics a transistor can switch nearly infinitely fast ;-)
  - ourcat 6y ago
    That's true. I actually have a few cheap card-like gadgets. And they're certainly not fresnel lenses. ;)

andybak 6y ago

I'll repeat a comment I made on Reddit: I was scanning the page trying to understand how you were doing positional tracking. Took me a while to realise that's what you mean by "Experimental room-scaling" I'd suggest that this isn't the best wording. Call it "positional tracking" or "6DOF" or something. The whole "room scale" thing was confusing at the start and isn't used much nowadays (Is seated 6DOF VR "room scale"? It's ambiguous and irrelevent for most purposes) I'd also say that I think most people assume that being SteamVR compatibile implies having 6DOF tracking of head and hands. Most software simply won't work unless you have this. How experimental is experimental?

SamBam 6y ago
Oh, I thought it was a cool mode that made your current room look huge or tiny. A sort of "Alice in Wonderland" mode.
- andybak 6y ago
  Yeah. The term arose around the time the Vive was released to distinguish against the Oculus Rift. It was a fairly subtle distinction - the Rift at that time was optimised for front-facing experiences because it came with two cameras you usually mounted on each side of your monitor. If you moved out of their cone or occluded them by turning around too much then it would lose tracking so most games assumed you'd mostly be facing forward. The Vive on the other hand had tracking that was usually mounted in opposite corners of the room. Two trackers were more than capable of covering an average sized room and the only limitation on your movement was cable tangle. The Rift tracking got a lot better eventually - even with two cameras. The other meaning of the term is sometimes to distinguish between VR that can track the headset position (6DOF) as well as it's rotation (3DOF). But all serious VR is 6DOF nowadays. 3DOF is pretty much the domain of "slide your phone in this thing" VR or headsets that are intended mainly for viewing 360 video. So - two different meanings of "room scale" that mean quite different things.
c22 6y ago
I understood what they meant by "room-scaling" immediately and I've only ever used a VR headset one time about 4 years ago. On the other hand, I can surmise from my experience with robot arms that "DOF" likely stands for degrees of freedom, but I would have had no clue what "6DOF" meant in terms of VR.

Fabricio20 6y ago

One interesting thing I noticed is that this project ALSO doesn't seem to have a controller. You can't really play SteamVR games without at least one! (Issue #50) You can grab a Samsung VR for very cheap, put a phone on it and do VirtualDesktop magic, but you are still gonna struggle without controllers. Same for Google Cardboard and other similar projects. There's some very cheap controllers you can get, with base stations for tracking like the Nolo-Home, but they are still quite behind the tracking precision and latency of some "top-of-the-shelf" headsets. It's an interesting idea and I hope the developments on it go forward, specially since the recent Facebook/Oculus announcement.

gri3v3r 6y ago
Unfortunately, these projects have been discontinued.
nimazeighami 6y ago
There are many great SteamVR games that support mouse and keyboard or an XBOX controller. Trover Saves the Universe is one of them. I don't think the lack of controller tracking is a deal-breaker for those who want to get an open source VR experience.
skykooler 6y ago
This has gotten me wondering whether there are any DIY projects for Lighthouse-compatible controllers?
- detaro 6y ago
  I seem to remember that someone had made a Lighthouse receiver for drones.
  - detaro 6y ago
    Might have been this: https://github.com/ashtuchkin/vive-diy-position-sensor https://github.com/ashtuchkin/vive-diy-position-sensor

MrGilbert 6y ago

It's interesting how a lot of commenters are writing "Relativity" instead of "Relativty". I also fell for this at first. Makes it easy to mistype the url, if you were to visit it later on.

martin-adams 6y ago
Google will probably auto correct any searches for it as well

IanSanders 6y ago

Can I point out, that's a nice domain name.

maneesh 6y ago
Did you notice it's missing the final 'i'?
- IanSanders 6y ago
  Ha, I did not.

beams_of_light 6y ago

These guys were 15 years old when they started, and are now 20. That's amazing, great work!

ortusdux 6y ago

Can anyone recommend an elegant method to 3d map a face? If I were to print one of these housings, I would at a minimum adjust it to my PD, but it would be great to also contour the fit to my face.

ourcat 6y ago
I did a similar thing to design a 3d printed mask. I used an iOS app called ScandyPro which gave me a mesh which I then imported into Fusion360 and modelled some lines/layers of the curves around my face. Then I performed a 'loft' between them. The result was a perfect fit.

ourcat 6y ago

If it supports 5GHz Wifi, something like this could eventually work well with VirtualDesktop (An incredibly useful app which makes the Oculus Quest truly wireless and capable of playing all SteamVR games from your PC). Keeping all the GPU overheads off the headset is the way to go. (And will also be seen eventually with future '5G' wireless systems (not to be confused with '5GHz' Wifi) which will put that 'grunt' in the cloud.)

Kiro 6y ago
OT but how is the lag with Oculus Quest + VirtualDesktop? Let's say I wanted to play Half-Life: Alyx.
- icebergonfire 6y ago
  On my Oculus Quest I have completed a playthrough of Alyx and a few other games of different genres, no issues and no delay whatsoever. It feels magical, in a way that feels like it must be cheating and the spell is going to break anytime... yet it doesn't. To pre-empt a few of the obvious asterisks: - "No latency" is physically impossible. If you play twitchy music rythm games you will indeed manage to notice. - You must have a good wifi ac router. - Your gaming host must be wired to that router. - To minimize network hoops, all of this should happen in the same room. Every milisecond counts.
  - skykooler 6y ago
    > Every millisecond counts. Not really sure that follows. For a 20ft room, it only takes a wifi signal 20 nanoseconds to cross it, and an ethernet signal around 30 nanoseconds. Your room would need to be over a hundred miles wide to add a millisecond of delay, disregarding stuff like repeaters.
    - ta8908695 6y ago
      I think the same room is to have good signal strength to minimize dropped/repeated packets. The transmission time won't be noticeable but the signal to noise ratio may decrease fairly quickly with distance and obstacles.

neonhat 6y ago

Seems like a fun project, but the experience will be garbage compared to Oculus/Vive.

skellystudios 6y ago

To the creators: this is a really incredible achievement, especially to have done at age 15, and really well communicated. Please don't get disheartened by the mass of comments around this not actually being a $200 headset[1] or your unusual[2] spelling. This is freaking awesome, please keep it up! [1] It definitely would be cool to see some sort of parts list, but that's not really the point here. [2] Clever domain hack, IMO

White_Wolf 6y ago
I think a lot of people are missing what I think are 3 main points before moaning about everything else: 1. It's freaking open source 2. It's DIY fun 3. It's the bare VR without being an over-engineered device that reports your farts to the manufacturer. I can only respect and envy the guys for pulling this off.
- vlovich123 6y ago
  Doesn't the Steam dependency mean the reports are going to Valve?
  - oooooooooooow 6y ago
    Why would this be steam (or anything) dependent -- am I missing something?
    - Shared404 6y ago
      It looked to me like it was Steam compatible, not steam dependent. However, I can see where the idea would come from, because they do talk a lot about Steam on the site.
      - vlovich123 6y ago
        What would you be able to do with the headset aside from connect it to Steam? They could add support for OpenXR but OpenXR is just starting to get traction and that's on the application developer side. I don't know how widespread the adoption of the HMD agnostic bits of OpenXR are.

1run9 6y ago

From a financial aspect, I think the soldering ion and a 3d printer would cost more than $200, plus $200 on parts. So with $400+, i would consider buying an Oculus? From bottom of my heart, hats off to those kids.

Aachen 6y ago
> the soldering ion and a 3d printer would cost more than $200 That sounds odd, a bit like saying a car and a smartphone holder together would cost more than X. A soldering iron is, what, 15 euros? And a cheap 3d printer like twenty times that?

the_hoser 6y ago

This is really great. I wish people would stop comparing this effort to commercial products, though. Like most open-source hardware, the proprietary competitor will always be the better value proposition, if that's all you care about.

VectorLock 6y ago

I never knew they made these boards that take two LCDs and have an adapter board with a DisplayPort (port) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32975198897.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32975198897.html

chrisallick 6y ago

nothing brings out the haters like a job well done. great project. people will benefit from it.

8K832d7tNmiQ 6y ago

why not just called it OpenVR? Shorter and more to the point IMO.

ehsankia 6y ago
Well OpenVR already is a thing. It's an API by Valve for interfacing with generic VR hardware.

ozten 6y ago

Amazing work, congrats! I think it is smart to build on top of SteamVR and PCVR, but... I would love to drop my Oculus Quest for a DIY open-source headset. My #1 requirement is stand-alone. No cable, no wires. I don't own a gaming PC, so the Quest has been a great way for me to experience 6DOF VR.

chaostheory 6y ago

This is awesome. I'm glad we have have insurance in case no one fills the void of HTC leaving. You can argue that Valve is, but given the massive back orders of the Index and their discontinuing of their controller and streaming box; I'm not totally confident. Now we just need controllers and maybe even base stations.

Fej 6y ago
Valve discontinued their controller and streaming box because they did not sell - to get rid of their stock, they had to put them on fire sale. They're still supporting the controller and afaik the streaming box as well. The controller was innovative but often regarded as awkward, and the streaming box wasn't particularly special. The Valve Index on the other hand has redefined the high-end VR market and is selling out accordingly. I've tried most of the consumer VR solutions on the market and the Index "knuckles" controllers blow everything else out of the water, it's not even close. Oculus has dropped out of that market, opting to produce more affordable but somewhat less capable headsets and controllers. I don't see HTC turning it around as they don't have the name recognition or the capital and their tech is already weaker. Point being is that Valve owns the top-end of the VR market already and this project, while impressive and definitely promising, is not competing with Valve. It might in the future, with a lot of work, but it's not insurance against a Valve dominion. There might not even be room in this niche market for more than one competitor, which is awful but that's what we're looking at.
- chaostheory 6y ago
  One reason the Steam controller didn't sell is that users had to figure out configuration schemes on their own instead of Valve being proactive with developers and publishing houses. I agree that the Index, especially the knuckles blows everything away, but I'm already seeing the same issue that the Steam controller suffered from pop up with the knuckles. You're right about Oculus too, and I hope that you'll be right about Valve staying in the game. I definitely want to keep using base stations instead of unreliable and heavy headset cameras. I want full body tracking to gain traction and that won't happen if external base stations die off.
6y ago

fouric 6y ago

> We started Relativty because after watching Sword Art Online This little fact alone makes the background story way funnier than most tech origin stories I've heard. And being able to do PCB layout and system design at 15-16? Kudos to Maxand Gabriel.

imba404 6y ago
Hopefully the design won't kill users on launch day.
- Shared404 6y ago
  For those downvoting, this is the plot of Sword Art Online.
- m4rtink 6y ago
  It's fine - people will be still perfectly willing to continue using it after it does that. ;-) (Plot of later part of Sword Art Online - really.)
  - imba404 6y ago
    The second generation of gear claims to have limiters to prevent nerve damage. Kinda like cars installing seat belts and air-bags.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

It's a great start at a young age, congratulations and all the best! I'm not into VR, but can this setup be used to create a 'Wearable low latency display for computers'[1] i.e a wired video headset? None of the current video headsets seem to work well according to the reviews be it $800 Ziess Cinemizer or $200 Avegant Glyph. [1]https://needgap.com/problems/16-wearable-low-latency-display-for-computers-display-wearables https://needgap.com/problems/16-wearable-low-latency-display...

ahupp 6y ago
A typical Apple "Retina" display has 57 pixels/degree[0], held at ~10 inches. VR screens are roughly similar resolution but held far closer to the eye, so pixels/degree is proportionately less. All this mean that we'll need dramatic increases in display resolution before it's pleasant to read text in VR for long periods of time. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display
- davidzweig 6y ago
  I think a 'video headset' doesn't try to such a wide angle as a 'VR headset.' I would really like one for programming on, as it's more portable than a big screen.
nimazeighami 6y ago
There's a good one coming out soon, the Cinera Edge Elite.
- CGamesPlay 6y ago
  https://www.cinera.net https://www.cinera.net It's a KickStarter, so I guess "coming out soon" is pretty speculative, but that's the link for it. Interestingly, I googled this and the permalink to this comment was actually the top result, 1 hour after the comment was made.
- Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
  It's aimed at watching movies, running android likely for the support of streaming apps; What I want is a computer monitor on my eyes and so this either underperforms for that need or is an overkill. OP project may in fact solve this, I need to look deeper into the tech.

lxe 6y ago

Great brand name. Awesome write up. "We made Relativty in my bedroom with a soldering iron and a 3D printer and we expect you to do the same: build it yourself." Soldering SMD components sounds daunting, so kudos to you for this. Not sure why the pedantics about 2K and the price in these comments...

lilSebastian 6y ago
> Soldering SMD components sounds daunting, It really isn't, watching some videos learning some techniques. Practice. The same statement could be made about most things that people aren't familiar with or haven't spent any time working to learn.
- lxe 6y ago
  Just because you can get good at something, doesn't mean it's not hard :)
  - spurgu 6y ago
    I know what you're getting at, but anything you're passionate about doesn't feel as hard as it does to people who are not. There are so many things in life that I think are nonsensically complicated and I have a hard time grasping why anyone would ever want to waste time on them, while I know how to do a lot of things that "normal people" consider outlandish - just because I spent tons of time researching and learning about a topic because I was interested in it. So yeah, if you're meh about VR headsets and "it would be kind of cool to have", just buy a Daydream - don't try to learn how to solder SMD's. :) If you want it enough you'll figure it out.
- num 6y ago
  It's also worth note that manufacturers like JLCPCB have SMT Assembly Service which might be able to deliver fully assembled boards. I haven't looked at the gerber+BOM to verify.
- ta8908695 6y ago
  As someone who has worked in an electronics lab and done lots of soldering, I can say your setup makes a huge difference. A great setup will make soldering SMD components a breeze, but a bad setup will make it very frustrating. Practice obviously helps but a nice soldering station with some kind of magnification will close the gap a whole lot faster.

agentdrtran 6y ago

This is extremely impressive and well-communicated!

AtlasBarfed 6y ago

Why isn't it RelaiVRty?

anigbrowl 6y ago

Looks very cool, but you are going to run into problems with the name because people are going to confuse it with https://www.relativity.com/ https://www.relativity.com/ That company sells a major legal document management platform, and has the standing, incentive, and capacity to drag Relativty into court for trademark infringement and easily win. The sheer number of people getting the word wrong on this HN thread is itself evidence of potential consumer confusion. Trademark infringement doesn't have to be wilful or malicious, and trademark holders are required to defend their marks or risk losing them through a legal doctrine called 'constructive abandonment' so it's probably only a matter of time before Relativity-the-legal-software-company sends a finger-wagging C&D letter to Relativty-the-bedroom-hackers. tl;dr find a new name or get sued.

neiman 6y ago

On a slightly related topic: are the open-source VR controllers?

keenmaster 6y ago

Considering how Palmer Luckey was just tinkering when he made the Oculus Rift, this can produce some useful innovation outside of the corporate environment.

jerrygoyal 6y ago

on a side note, I wish if there was a company like LEGO but for providing components for building DIY electronic gadgets especially small size home robots which gets some particular work done. for instance DIY wifi locks for doors, automated food dispenser for pets etc.

zamboni-killer 6y ago
Radio Shack could have done this.
centimeter 6y ago
People have tried to make kits like this but they never work out because a LEGO-like form factor is not flexible enough for 99% of projects. Electronics are already pretty LEGO-like conceptually; you just have to solder instead of snapping things together.
moron4hire 6y ago
Isn't that AdaFruit and Sparkfun?

spaceisballer 6y ago

This looks great. Is there anything on the horizon filling in the more inexpensive market that Windows Mixed Reality headsets were occupying?

libraryatnight 6y ago

This is really awesome. People doing things like this just makes me happy.

AGSYS 6y ago

The developers could add 6dof roomscale tracking relatively easily by adding an intel 265 (https://www.intelrealsense.com/tracking-camera-t265/ https://www.intelrealsense.com/tracking-camera-t265/). The unity integration is very plug and play. The 261 can also be used but must be bought in trays of 8.

armandoramires6 6y ago

Armandoramires65@gmail.com

i_type_loud 6y ago

test thread (please ignore, will delete after)

i_type_loud 6y ago
test thread (please ignore, will delete after)
- i_type_loud 6y ago
  test thread (please ignore, will delete after)
  - i_type_loud 6y ago
    test thread (please ignore, will delete after)