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For terminal server use cases, there are things like VNC, SPICE, NX, etc. The X11/ssh thing is for when you want to run a mix of local and remote applications o

by twic 6y ago

For terminal server use cases, there are things like VNC, SPICE, NX, etc. The X11/ssh thing is for when you want to run a mix of local and remote applications on a single desktop, which i think is pretty unusual these days.

welterde 6y ago
Is it really that unusual to do some data reduction/analysis on a beefy dedicated machine and wanting to look at the results right away using the same terminal instead of having to copy the result files or using a shared network file system? Even more important if it involves any graphical interactions. Sure, one could use a remote desktop to do same thing, but it's a bit annoying if all you want is one window from the remote machine.
- u801e 6y ago
  > it's a bit annoying if all you want is one window from the remote machine. You should try xrdp. It can work like X forwarding (single application window forwarding), but you can also attach or detach from a running application (like screen or tmux for X).
  - welterde 6y ago
    That's only really an alternative for long-running applications since it still seems quite tedious to do if I am not missing anything (with modifying initial_program and all). Right now the workflow is simply ssh -X machine and then run some scripts that may or may not open interactive windows and then look at the result files using some graphical application. The same as if I was running it locally really (except on a beefy machine)..
    - u801e 6y ago
      I haven't tried all of the xpra options, but it would be a matter of starting an instance on the remote machine and then running the command to attach to it in the local machine. I suppose that you could start a terminal session on the remote machine and spawn GUI applications from that. I'm not sure if xpra allows for a terminal session directly from the command line though.
sildur 6y ago
Wheelchair users are also pretty unusual and we don’t go removing ramps from everywhere. I’m growing pretty tired of the “your use case is unusual, so fuck you” argument.
- hyperdimension 6y ago
  > "your use case is unusual, so fuck you" With love, The Chrome Team
  - znpy 6y ago
    > With love, The Chrome Team Google continues the war against its own users.
- jrm4 6y ago
  Despite having felt this way about so many things, I have never seen this argument put so well and succinctly. I am going to be using this ALL THE TIME. Also, is this "sildur" of Minecraft shader fame? If so, much thanks, you've given me and my daughter many instances of "ooh pretty look at our house."
  - morelisp 6y ago
    Please do not so blithely invoke disability just because someone removed the feature you cared about. It sucks, but I promise you navigating the world in a wheelchair sucks a lot more. I don't want to speak for anyone in particular but X11 was definitely not a friend to people who cared about a11y or l10n. It wore its origins in "80s MIT students" on its sleeve, for good and bad - and for non-English-speaking or disabled people, mostly bad.
    - sildur 6y ago
      Hey, this is not a contest about who had the crappiest life, and if it was, I can assure you that there are things in life that suck more than navigating the world in a wheelchair, and I’m not asking people to stop complaining about that just because they happened to me. Anyways, replace wheelchair users with pregnant women, or old people. Ramps help them too, and the argument is still valid.
chriswarbo 6y ago
> For terminal server use cases, there are things like VNC, SPICE, NX, etc. Great. Which of those, if any, do you think might be installed on the machines I want access to? Which of those, if any, do you think might be installed on the machines I want access from? What do you think are the odds that the intersection of those is non-empty?
msla 6y ago
> which i think is pretty unusual these days. You have absolutely no basis for thinking this.
spear 6y ago
My remaining use case for X11 remote display doesn't quite fit in the VNC/etc. remote display paradigm. At work, I submit a job to queuing software that picks a server (based on load and resource requirements) from a pool on the internal network. The GUI for that job then pops up on my X11 display. I don't really care which server is running the job, and the job is just using $DISPLAY -- we don't even forward over ssh.
- Bnshsysjab 6y ago
  I’m not an X hater but just know you’ve given that server access to your display socket which is effectively remote command execution. In most cases this could be solved with a good web user interface, but you can rest assured X won’t be dead in the next 5-15 years, and you can use an intermediary box w/VNC if security is that much of a concern.

by twic 6y ago

welterde 6y ago

Is it really that unusual to do some data reduction/analysis on a beefy dedicated machine and wanting to look at the results right away using the same terminal instead of having to copy the result files or using a shared network file system? Even more important if it involves any graphical interactions. Sure, one could use a remote desktop to do same thing, but it's a bit annoying if all you want is one window from the remote machine.

u801e 6y ago
> it's a bit annoying if all you want is one window from the remote machine. You should try xrdp. It can work like X forwarding (single application window forwarding), but you can also attach or detach from a running application (like screen or tmux for X).
- welterde 6y ago
  That's only really an alternative for long-running applications since it still seems quite tedious to do if I am not missing anything (with modifying initial_program and all). Right now the workflow is simply ssh -X machine and then run some scripts that may or may not open interactive windows and then look at the result files using some graphical application. The same as if I was running it locally really (except on a beefy machine)..
  - u801e 6y ago
    I haven't tried all of the xpra options, but it would be a matter of starting an instance on the remote machine and then running the command to attach to it in the local machine. I suppose that you could start a terminal session on the remote machine and spawn GUI applications from that. I'm not sure if xpra allows for a terminal session directly from the command line though.

sildur 6y ago

Wheelchair users are also pretty unusual and we don’t go removing ramps from everywhere. I’m growing pretty tired of the “your use case is unusual, so fuck you” argument.

hyperdimension 6y ago
> "your use case is unusual, so fuck you" With love, The Chrome Team
- znpy 6y ago
  > With love, The Chrome Team Google continues the war against its own users.
jrm4 6y ago
Despite having felt this way about so many things, I have never seen this argument put so well and succinctly. I am going to be using this ALL THE TIME. Also, is this "sildur" of Minecraft shader fame? If so, much thanks, you've given me and my daughter many instances of "ooh pretty look at our house."
- morelisp 6y ago
  Please do not so blithely invoke disability just because someone removed the feature you cared about. It sucks, but I promise you navigating the world in a wheelchair sucks a lot more. I don't want to speak for anyone in particular but X11 was definitely not a friend to people who cared about a11y or l10n. It wore its origins in "80s MIT students" on its sleeve, for good and bad - and for non-English-speaking or disabled people, mostly bad.
  - sildur 6y ago
    Hey, this is not a contest about who had the crappiest life, and if it was, I can assure you that there are things in life that suck more than navigating the world in a wheelchair, and I’m not asking people to stop complaining about that just because they happened to me. Anyways, replace wheelchair users with pregnant women, or old people. Ramps help them too, and the argument is still valid.

chriswarbo 6y ago

> For terminal server use cases, there are things like VNC, SPICE, NX, etc. Great. Which of those, if any, do you think might be installed on the machines I want access to? Which of those, if any, do you think might be installed on the machines I want access from? What do you think are the odds that the intersection of those is non-empty?

msla 6y ago

> which i think is pretty unusual these days. You have absolutely no basis for thinking this.

spear 6y ago

My remaining use case for X11 remote display doesn't quite fit in the VNC/etc. remote display paradigm. At work, I submit a job to queuing software that picks a server (based on load and resource requirements) from a pool on the internal network. The GUI for that job then pops up on my X11 display. I don't really care which server is running the job, and the job is just using $DISPLAY -- we don't even forward over ssh.

Bnshsysjab 6y ago
I’m not an X hater but just know you’ve given that server access to your display socket which is effectively remote command execution. In most cases this could be solved with a good web user interface, but you can rest assured X won’t be dead in the next 5-15 years, and you can use an intermediary box w/VNC if security is that much of a concern.