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I find that neither pragmatic nor ethically sound. If you're in a security alliance with countries you share values and goals with, how can you not apply diffe
by fauigerzigerk 6y ago
I find that neither pragmatic nor ethically sound.
If you're in a security alliance with countries you share values and goals with, how can you not apply different standards in terms of data sharing? And how can you not react somewhat differently to any transgressions, mistakes and imperfections?
I know Trump has made this very difficult by making his personal whims indistinguishable from the interests and commitments of his country. In my view this is a form of corruption that does massive damage to the U.S. And yes, democratic control over security services has been rather tenuous at the best of times.
But I still see many good reasons not to impose broad economic sanctions on allied democracies. And I do see good reasons to side with them against completely illegitimate regimes that use their security services to keep themselves in power without a democratic mandate.
Of course there are many grey areas and a lot of valid criticism. But asking for Europe to officially impose economic sanctions on the U.S is not a proportionate reaction to that. The economic damage would far outweigh any additional freedom or security.
If you refuse to apply a degree of pragmatism and proportionality, other countries would then have to impose economic sanctions on Germany for their use of Staatstrojaner. Essentially, all cross border trade in digital goods and services would have to end globally. That can't be a good idea.
- Dahoon 6y ago>And I do see good reasons to side with them against completely illegitimate regimes that use their security services to keep themselves in power without a democratic mandate. Really though, with the system in place in the US it isn't in a position to point fingers. Do you really feel the poor homeless person has more power in the US elections than in those you just compared it to ? I really don't. So yes democratic countries should work together but the question is, does the US belong in that club or did it force itself on it? The answer isn't really that easy.
- fauigerzigerk 6y ago>Do you really feel the poor homeless person has more power in the US elections than in those you just compared it to ? Yes I do. It follows from the simple fact that there are no free and fair elections on those countries. Freedom of speech in combination with elections gives us some power to change things. People in dictotorships don't have those powers, regardless of whether or not they are homeless. Homelessless exists in Europe as well by the way.
- scsilver 6y agoI mean, there are still monarchies in Europe. How are you suspect of the US and not the british if you are concerned about an over powerful executive.
- krapp 6y ago> I mean, there are still monarchies in Europe. How are you suspect of the US and not the british if you are concerned about an over powerful executive. Umm... the British monarchy hasn't held executive authority in centuries. They're window dressing like almost all European monarchs.
- dang 6y agoIf you keep posting nationalistic flamewar comments to HN, we're going to have to ban you, regardless of which country or countries you're flaming. We've had to warn you about this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23645175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23645175. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html