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The difference is that here we have the freedom to criticize and organize against it. One of the presidential candidates wants to tear down all the stuff you po

The difference is that here we have the freedom to criticize and organize against it. One of the presidential candidates wants to tear down all the stuff you pointed out. I can say that the surveillance doesn't affect me because it's almost unheard of for Americans to get arrested with evidence that the NSA collected. The NSA is not a law enforcement agency. In China arresting people based on data from surveillance is the norm.

unionpivo 6y ago
> The difference is that here we have the freedom to criticize and organize against it. Edit: I am mostly addressing the organize against it part. USA has far better free speech protections than China Do you ? As an outsider it doesn't really look that way. After watching events and protest around BLM, suddenly all those rights have gotchas in them. Watching USA protesters and Honkong protesters, and goverment respones to them, there were far more similarities than differences. (Well china was still worse, but not by as much as most USA people seem to think). The biggest difference in USA and china at the moments is that in USA some Politicians still listen to people (if only mostly out of self interest)
- deathgrips 6y ago
  If we were like China, Joe Biden would be in jail. It's a different level entirely. Also please use some judgment when seeing America through the lens of our news media. They have every incentive to exaggerate stories so they can get more clicks and sell more ads. The police brutality at the protests is bad, but it's in a different ballpark than the Hong Kong protests. Here protesters don't have a reasonable fear of getting sent to mainland China to be imprisoned for decades, gang raped by cops in jail, and murdered while cops fake your suicide.
  - danielheath 6y ago
    Only the latter two, but at least you won’t get sent to mainland China by us police.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    Regarding the reality distortion fields of Phox Noise and friends, what makes you think the news you get from the HK protesters are any different? Furthermore, please explain why the cameras were off when Jeffrey Epstein died? And the autopsy has been... err 'inconclusive'?
    - derivagral 6y ago
      I think you could take the FBI's very different approach towards Ghislaine Maxwell as evidence that while the Epstein result was... questionable, there is some amount of vested interest in not just disappearing the related actors. Occam's razor, etc.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        That remains to be seen.
coronadisaster 6y ago
But the FBI has been trained to hide the source of information, probably because it is illegal in many cases (maybe comes from NSA)... they call it parallel construction but it probably should be called something much worst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction
- deathgrips 6y ago
  So in the end they only convict people based on legally permissible evidence that shows they are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? How horrible.
  - coronadisaster 6y ago
    No that is not what it means
srean 6y ago
> here we have the freedom to criticize and organize against it Ask those who wanted to protest against recent disproportionate police actions and those who did and became targets.
- smsm42 6y ago
  I see hundreds if not thousands people protesting and those of them who do not engage in acts of violence and property destruction have no problems. In fact, a lot of those who do engage in acts of violence and property destruction have no problems either - even if those are arrested, which happens very rarely, they are frequently released on the spot, and the charges are dropped. Only a handful of hardcore repeated offenders are even detained and charged. And with conviction and prosecution it remains to be seen if it ever happens even for most prominent and well-documented cases.
jaywalk 6y ago
> One of the presidential candidates wants to tear down all the stuff you pointed out. "All the stuff" that was either started or expanded while he was VP. Yeah, sure he wants to tear it down.
smsm42 6y ago
> One of the presidential candidates wants to tear down all the stuff you pointed out. Biden is not going to change anything NSA-related, do not delude yourself and do not mistake electioneering frenzy for policy.
- lern_too_spel 6y ago
  Under Biden's vice presidency, the NSA's collection of Americans' data reduced. Email metadata collection stopped in 2010 before the Snowden leaks, and phone metadata collection reduced after. He seems consistent on this issue. Prior to his stint as VP, he complained about metadata collection by the GWB administration. https://youtu.be/h2qgU8kJt-0 https://youtu.be/h2qgU8kJt-0
  - smsm42 6y ago
    Of course he complained about data collection by the administration his political enemies are running. The question is what happened when he was running it. So far you said "reduced" - reduced how? PRISM still exists, doesn't it? And there are many more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_mass_surveillance_projects#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_mass_survei... So the question is not whether Joe Biden ever grandstanded on the topic - I'm sure he did, as every politician would. The question is what he had done about it when he was Senator and VP - specific actions attributable to him? Because if he has been consistent to paying lip service to the issue while not doing anything in practice - it is prudent to expect the same consistency to extend into the future.
    - lern_too_spel 6y ago
      > reduced how? I told you in the GP post. The email metadata program was shut down, and the phone metadata collection was reduced. > PRISM still exists, PRISM does not collect Americans' data. > The question is what he had done about it when he was Senator and VP - specific actions attributable to him? Again, I told that to you.
      - 6y ago

unionpivo 6y ago

> The difference is that here we have the freedom to criticize and organize against it. Edit: I am mostly addressing the organize against it part. USA has far better free speech protections than China Do you ? As an outsider it doesn't really look that way. After watching events and protest around BLM, suddenly all those rights have gotchas in them. Watching USA protesters and Honkong protesters, and goverment respones to them, there were far more similarities than differences. (Well china was still worse, but not by as much as most USA people seem to think). The biggest difference in USA and china at the moments is that in USA some Politicians still listen to people (if only mostly out of self interest)

deathgrips 6y ago
If we were like China, Joe Biden would be in jail. It's a different level entirely. Also please use some judgment when seeing America through the lens of our news media. They have every incentive to exaggerate stories so they can get more clicks and sell more ads. The police brutality at the protests is bad, but it's in a different ballpark than the Hong Kong protests. Here protesters don't have a reasonable fear of getting sent to mainland China to be imprisoned for decades, gang raped by cops in jail, and murdered while cops fake your suicide.
- danielheath 6y ago
  Only the latter two, but at least you won’t get sent to mainland China by us police.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Regarding the reality distortion fields of Phox Noise and friends, what makes you think the news you get from the HK protesters are any different? Furthermore, please explain why the cameras were off when Jeffrey Epstein died? And the autopsy has been... err 'inconclusive'?
  - derivagral 6y ago
    I think you could take the FBI's very different approach towards Ghislaine Maxwell as evidence that while the Epstein result was... questionable, there is some amount of vested interest in not just disappearing the related actors. Occam's razor, etc.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      That remains to be seen.

coronadisaster 6y ago

But the FBI has been trained to hide the source of information, probably because it is illegal in many cases (maybe comes from NSA)... they call it parallel construction but it probably should be called something much worst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

deathgrips 6y ago
So in the end they only convict people based on legally permissible evidence that shows they are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? How horrible.
- coronadisaster 6y ago
  No that is not what it means

srean 6y ago

> here we have the freedom to criticize and organize against it Ask those who wanted to protest against recent disproportionate police actions and those who did and became targets.

smsm42 6y ago
I see hundreds if not thousands people protesting and those of them who do not engage in acts of violence and property destruction have no problems. In fact, a lot of those who do engage in acts of violence and property destruction have no problems either - even if those are arrested, which happens very rarely, they are frequently released on the spot, and the charges are dropped. Only a handful of hardcore repeated offenders are even detained and charged. And with conviction and prosecution it remains to be seen if it ever happens even for most prominent and well-documented cases.

jaywalk 6y ago

> One of the presidential candidates wants to tear down all the stuff you pointed out. "All the stuff" that was either started or expanded while he was VP. Yeah, sure he wants to tear it down.

smsm42 6y ago

> One of the presidential candidates wants to tear down all the stuff you pointed out. Biden is not going to change anything NSA-related, do not delude yourself and do not mistake electioneering frenzy for policy.

lern_too_spel 6y ago
Under Biden's vice presidency, the NSA's collection of Americans' data reduced. Email metadata collection stopped in 2010 before the Snowden leaks, and phone metadata collection reduced after. He seems consistent on this issue. Prior to his stint as VP, he complained about metadata collection by the GWB administration. https://youtu.be/h2qgU8kJt-0 https://youtu.be/h2qgU8kJt-0
- smsm42 6y ago
  Of course he complained about data collection by the administration his political enemies are running. The question is what happened when he was running it. So far you said "reduced" - reduced how? PRISM still exists, doesn't it? And there are many more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_mass_surveillance_projects#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_mass_survei... So the question is not whether Joe Biden ever grandstanded on the topic - I'm sure he did, as every politician would. The question is what he had done about it when he was Senator and VP - specific actions attributable to him? Because if he has been consistent to paying lip service to the issue while not doing anything in practice - it is prudent to expect the same consistency to extend into the future.
  - lern_too_spel 6y ago
    > reduced how? I told you in the GP post. The email metadata program was shut down, and the phone metadata collection was reduced. > PRISM still exists, PRISM does not collect Americans' data. > The question is what he had done about it when he was Senator and VP - specific actions attributable to him? Again, I told that to you.
    - 6y ago