4 ms·

I’m totally uninformed about wireless power and it’s safety, but it seems like a lot of people in these threads are so I’d like to fire it this question: can hi

I’m totally uninformed about wireless power and it’s safety, but it seems like a lot of people in these threads are so I’d like to fire it this question: can high gain 5Ghz WiFi cause any adverse health effects? I just got a new MikroTik router yesterday that has a really high gain radio on it. It shipped with the 5Ghz dedicated radio disabled, and I have it sitting under my desk. When I turned the radio on, I started to feel a tingle and a dullish pain in my ankles. When I switched my phone to the 5GHz network I perceived increased radio noise, and noticed a tingling sensation in my hands. Prolonged use seemed to irritate my forearms. It’s entirely possible this is a psychosomatic effect and I’ve kept the radio on based on that assumption. Still, I’m concerned. It feels similar to the effect I feel standing off-axis from my microwave while it’s running 1100W full blast. Is this in my head? Am I safe to use this radio at full gain? Should I not keep it by my desk?

jakear 6y ago
Have some third party toggle it a few (3+) times and see if you can tell the difference.
- beowulfey 6y ago
  Yes this is a great suggestion
noisy_boy 6y ago
I have felt an almost imperceptible tingling when I stand off-axis from the my microwave too. I thought it was a figment of my imagination. Based on the experience you shared, it might not be. I don't experience anything like that with my 5Ghz wifi or anything else though.
- Widdershin 6y ago
  You might want to consider investing in a Geiger counter, your microwave might be leaking radiation.
  - teruakohatu 6y ago
    You are spreading false information. A microwave oven does not "leak" or generate the kind of dangerous alpha particles, beta particles, and gamma rays (ionizing radiation) detected by a Geiger counter. Microwave ovens operate at 2,450 MHz.
    - reilly3000 6y ago
      Is their a decently affordable type of tool for measuring or capturing em radiation in the WiFi frequency range? I suppose I could glean a lot from running a logger on an ESP32 and walking around, but I have to imagine EE folks and scientists have better tools for the job.
      - teruakohatu 6y ago
        Something like this: https://www.seeedstudio.com/RF-Explorer-model-WSUB1G-p-922.html https://www.seeedstudio.com/RF-Explorer-model-WSUB1G-p-922.h... ... along with a high dB external attenuator because it is designed for low power. According to the docs a 60dB external allows for 1 milliWatt to 2 Watt measureable input. I think the default power for 2.4ghz Wifi is 100mW.
        reilly3000 6y ago
        Very cool, that’s exactly what I’m after. I’m getting into IoT development and need good information as I work on various applications. Thanks!
    - Widdershin 6y ago
      Ah, my apologies, I had a faulty source
      - reilly3000 6y ago
        The world would be a better place if more people said just that, good on you.
fsh 6y ago
Radio technology has been in widespread use for over a century. The only health effects that have ever been conclusively demonstrated are due to heating of the tissue. A typical Wifi router with a few hundred mW of maximum power probably won't do much. The LTE transmitter in your phone is considerably more powerful and much closer to your body. Most likely the effects you have seen are entirely psychosomatic.
- reilly3000 6y ago
  Thank you. The WHO seems to agree; I just spotted this: https://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs304/en/ https://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs304/en/ That said, they are looking at tissue heat as the main threat. This IEEE study shows tissue degeneration in lab tests associated with WiFi exposure, with most effects showing in later measurements across a 6 month period. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Azuwa_Ali/publication/261315900_Biological_effects_of_WiFi_electromagnetic_radiation/links/5b84ee19299bf1d5a72c8b0b/Biological-effects-of-WiFi-electromagnetic-radiation.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Azuwa_Ali/publication/2... This paper also demonstrates very significant effects on liver enzymes, consistent with the other study. It was interesting to see both studies observed increasing effects over longer periods of exposure. https://journals.sbmu.ac.ir/aab/article/view/19283 https://journals.sbmu.ac.ir/aab/article/view/19283 Most of the info on EMR on the web is disastrously bad. Somatosensory amplification is common among people with certain behavioral health diagnoses, and the web has certainly amplified that- but a lot of this dates back to the days of tin-foil hats. I’ve tried to focus on finding decent quality info and found a lot of noise and fear-mongering opportunists around this subject. My little survey this evening leaves me still a bit concerned. I find no reason to think those papers aren’t credible, but I would welcome any criticism you can point me to. Intuitively it seems to me that if EM energy is powerful enough to move large amounts energy and information, it’s powerful enough to erode systems in its path, even without ions or heat.
  - XMPPwocky 6y ago
    What was the power level in the first study? I can't find it anywhere, and it kinda sounds like they just slow-cooked some mice.

jakear 6y ago

Have some third party toggle it a few (3+) times and see if you can tell the difference.

beowulfey 6y ago
Yes this is a great suggestion

noisy_boy 6y ago

I have felt an almost imperceptible tingling when I stand off-axis from the my microwave too. I thought it was a figment of my imagination. Based on the experience you shared, it might not be. I don't experience anything like that with my 5Ghz wifi or anything else though.

Widdershin 6y ago
You might want to consider investing in a Geiger counter, your microwave might be leaking radiation.
- teruakohatu 6y ago
  You are spreading false information. A microwave oven does not "leak" or generate the kind of dangerous alpha particles, beta particles, and gamma rays (ionizing radiation) detected by a Geiger counter. Microwave ovens operate at 2,450 MHz.
  - reilly3000 6y ago
    Is their a decently affordable type of tool for measuring or capturing em radiation in the WiFi frequency range? I suppose I could glean a lot from running a logger on an ESP32 and walking around, but I have to imagine EE folks and scientists have better tools for the job.
    - teruakohatu 6y ago
      Something like this: https://www.seeedstudio.com/RF-Explorer-model-WSUB1G-p-922.html https://www.seeedstudio.com/RF-Explorer-model-WSUB1G-p-922.h... ... along with a high dB external attenuator because it is designed for low power. According to the docs a 60dB external allows for 1 milliWatt to 2 Watt measureable input. I think the default power for 2.4ghz Wifi is 100mW.
      - reilly3000 6y ago
        Very cool, that’s exactly what I’m after. I’m getting into IoT development and need good information as I work on various applications. Thanks!
  - Widdershin 6y ago
    Ah, my apologies, I had a faulty source
    - reilly3000 6y ago
      The world would be a better place if more people said just that, good on you.

fsh 6y ago

Radio technology has been in widespread use for over a century. The only health effects that have ever been conclusively demonstrated are due to heating of the tissue. A typical Wifi router with a few hundred mW of maximum power probably won't do much. The LTE transmitter in your phone is considerably more powerful and much closer to your body. Most likely the effects you have seen are entirely psychosomatic.

reilly3000 6y ago
Thank you. The WHO seems to agree; I just spotted this: https://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs304/en/ https://www.who.int/peh-emf/publications/facts/fs304/en/ That said, they are looking at tissue heat as the main threat. This IEEE study shows tissue degeneration in lab tests associated with WiFi exposure, with most effects showing in later measurements across a 6 month period. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Azuwa_Ali/publication/261315900_Biological_effects_of_WiFi_electromagnetic_radiation/links/5b84ee19299bf1d5a72c8b0b/Biological-effects-of-WiFi-electromagnetic-radiation.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Azuwa_Ali/publication/2... This paper also demonstrates very significant effects on liver enzymes, consistent with the other study. It was interesting to see both studies observed increasing effects over longer periods of exposure. https://journals.sbmu.ac.ir/aab/article/view/19283 https://journals.sbmu.ac.ir/aab/article/view/19283 Most of the info on EMR on the web is disastrously bad. Somatosensory amplification is common among people with certain behavioral health diagnoses, and the web has certainly amplified that- but a lot of this dates back to the days of tin-foil hats. I’ve tried to focus on finding decent quality info and found a lot of noise and fear-mongering opportunists around this subject. My little survey this evening leaves me still a bit concerned. I find no reason to think those papers aren’t credible, but I would welcome any criticism you can point me to. Intuitively it seems to me that if EM energy is powerful enough to move large amounts energy and information, it’s powerful enough to erode systems in its path, even without ions or heat.
- XMPPwocky 6y ago
  What was the power level in the first study? I can't find it anywhere, and it kinda sounds like they just slow-cooked some mice.