3 ms·

> The people dying from corona are mainly those who are statistically dying this year because they have reached the end of their lives The excess deaths statis

by SamBam 6y ago

> The people dying from corona are mainly those who are statistically dying this year because they have reached the end of their lives The excess deaths statistics [1] give lie to the tired claim that these were all people who "would have died anyway." 200,000+ more people have died this year in the US alone than normal, and it's very statistically-significant, particularly as the annual death rate is under 3 million. 1. https://www.sciencealert.com/2020-has-killed-up-to-200-000-extra-people-in-the-us-so-far https://www.sciencealert.com/2020-has-killed-up-to-200-000-e...

hiram112 6y ago
You won't be able to prove your assertion until there is a known vaccination that helps elderly people avoid Covid. At that point, if these deaths occured in elderly who were probably within a year of dying even without covid, we'd expect to see next year a much smaller amount of deaths compared to average, because so many people died one year early.
ghufran_syed 6y ago
I’m an ER doc, it’s unclear to me how many of these excess deaths are due to covid, or due to the covid lockdown. I am sure that many are due to covid, but patients avoiding hospital due to the worry about covid, cancelling surgeries, and delaying chemotherapy adversely affects health too. The US government paying for covid care is also a positive step for society, but it does have the effect that patients who have no covid symptoms but have a positive screening test who die of non-covid pathology will end up being labelled a covid death in order to maximize the hospital and physician reimbursement.
- javagram 6y ago
  I’ve seen statistical analysis that shows US states that had a lockdown, but not a high number of covid cases, don’t have excess deaths. * https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301975654771064834?s=20 https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301975654771064834?... * https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301976643146317825?s=20 https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301976643146317825?... This suggests undiagnosed COVID is in fact the cause of most of the excess deaths.
  - SamBam 6y ago
    That's super-interesting, thank you.

by SamBam 6y ago

hiram112 6y ago

You won't be able to prove your assertion until there is a known vaccination that helps elderly people avoid Covid. At that point, if these deaths occured in elderly who were probably within a year of dying even without covid, we'd expect to see next year a much smaller amount of deaths compared to average, because so many people died one year early.

ghufran_syed 6y ago

I’m an ER doc, it’s unclear to me how many of these excess deaths are due to covid, or due to the covid lockdown. I am sure that many are due to covid, but patients avoiding hospital due to the worry about covid, cancelling surgeries, and delaying chemotherapy adversely affects health too. The US government paying for covid care is also a positive step for society, but it does have the effect that patients who have no covid symptoms but have a positive screening test who die of non-covid pathology will end up being labelled a covid death in order to maximize the hospital and physician reimbursement.

javagram 6y ago
I’ve seen statistical analysis that shows US states that had a lockdown, but not a high number of covid cases, don’t have excess deaths. * https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301975654771064834?s=20 https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301975654771064834?... * https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301976643146317825?s=20 https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301976643146317825?... This suggests undiagnosed COVID is in fact the cause of most of the excess deaths.
- SamBam 6y ago
  That's super-interesting, thank you.