4 ms·

Because it is just a flu. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23763945 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23763945

dane-pgp 6y ago
> (No more than 250,000 deaths from COVID-19 worldwide within a quarter of a year, compared to 1.5 million deaths during the flu wave in 2017/18). Interesting weasel-words and cherry-picking. First, comparing a quarter of a year of Covid deaths against a whole year (or two?) of normal flu, and then subtly shifting between deaths from Covid and deaths during a flu wave (so not caused by the flu?). For a more accurate comparison: "between 291,000 and 646,000 people worldwide die from seasonal influenza-related respiratory illnesses each year"[0] and 907,917 have died from Covid so far this year[1], despite all the extra measures taken to limit its spread and mortality rate. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p1213-flu-death-estimate.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p1213-flu-death-esti... [1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
- stateofnounion 6y ago
  > and then subtly shifting between deaths from Covid and deaths during a flu wave (so not caused by the flu?). Newsflash, genius. They are counting every person that died with COVID (or even "presumed" positive) as a death from COVID-19. The actual number of people that were killed directly by COVID is not known, just like we don't measure, test, or track every single person that dies of flu each year. It's an estimate that's arrived at long after the fact by reviewing data.
  - cbsks 6y ago
    In California, deaths are only counted if the death certificate has “COVID-19” as the cause of death. If someone is hit by a car and is also positive for COVID-19, that shouldn’t be counted. > Cumulative number of COVID-related deaths as reported by local health department, beginning March 19, 2020. This determination is made by local health departments based on the cause of death reported on death certificates. It is expected that, to be counted, COVID is the cause of death or at least a contributing factor to the death. COVID-related deaths are also counted in “Positive Cases”. https://covid19.ca.gov/data-and-tools/ https://covid19.ca.gov/data-and-tools/
    - stateofnounion 6y ago
      That language says nothing about whether a positive test is required to attribute a death to COVID-19. Here is the CDC's policy: > In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” There is also a lack of consistency between how states count deaths: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/which-deaths-count-toward-the-covid-19-death-toll-it-depends-on-the-state/2020/04/16/bca84ae0-7991-11ea-a130-df573469f094_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/which-deaths-c...
  - dane-pgp 6y ago
    Thanks for the newsflash, fellow genius. So are you saying that the number of people killed by Covid isn't known, and the number of people killed by flu each year isn't known, so we basically have no valid data and can't compare the two diseases in any meaningful way? If not, what would you say is a reasonable way to compare them?
- SamBam 6y ago
  > The people dying from corona are mainly those who are statistically dying this year because they have reached the end of their lives The excess deaths statistics [1] give lie to the tired claim that these were all people who "would have died anyway." 200,000+ more people have died this year in the US alone than normal, and it's very statistically-significant, particularly as the annual death rate is under 3 million. 1. https://www.sciencealert.com/2020-has-killed-up-to-200-000-extra-people-in-the-us-so-far https://www.sciencealert.com/2020-has-killed-up-to-200-000-e...
  - hiram112 6y ago
    You won't be able to prove your assertion until there is a known vaccination that helps elderly people avoid Covid. At that point, if these deaths occured in elderly who were probably within a year of dying even without covid, we'd expect to see next year a much smaller amount of deaths compared to average, because so many people died one year early.
  - ghufran_syed 6y ago
    I’m an ER doc, it’s unclear to me how many of these excess deaths are due to covid, or due to the covid lockdown. I am sure that many are due to covid, but patients avoiding hospital due to the worry about covid, cancelling surgeries, and delaying chemotherapy adversely affects health too. The US government paying for covid care is also a positive step for society, but it does have the effect that patients who have no covid symptoms but have a positive screening test who die of non-covid pathology will end up being labelled a covid death in order to maximize the hospital and physician reimbursement.
    - javagram 6y ago
      I’ve seen statistical analysis that shows US states that had a lockdown, but not a high number of covid cases, don’t have excess deaths. * https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301975654771064834?s=20 https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301975654771064834?... * https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301976643146317825?s=20 https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301976643146317825?... This suggests undiagnosed COVID is in fact the cause of most of the excess deaths.
- Izkata 6y ago
  > > the flu wave in 2017/18 > a whole year (or two?) of normal flu Flu season is fall to spring, that range is (northern hemisphere) half a year. Both years are given because it started in 2017 and ended in 2018.
  - dane-pgp 6y ago
    If the original claim was being made in good faith I would agree that "2017/18" means a single year, but given the other prevarications I couldn't rule out an attempt at double-counting.
tasogare 6y ago
Same in France: the government destroyed the economy and made the worst massive privation of liberty since the establishment of the Republic (even the German invader didn’t go that far during WWII). So of course they’re trying to covert their misdeeds by lying about the virus dangerosity to avoid people’s backlash.
spirobel 6y ago
citizen! you have committed wrongthink!
- drummer 6y ago
  It does indeed appear that you are correct.
TheBigSalad 6y ago
Do you realize how many people the flu kills? We don't need another flu.

> (No more than 250,000 deaths from COVID-19 worldwide within a quarter of a year, compared to 1.5 million deaths during the flu wave in 2017/18). Interesting weasel-words and cherry-picking. First, comparing a quarter of a year of Covid deaths against a whole year (or two?) of normal flu, and then subtly shifting between deaths from Covid and deaths during a flu wave (so not caused by the flu?). For a more accurate comparison: "between 291,000 and 646,000 people worldwide die from seasonal influenza-related respiratory illnesses each year"[0] and 907,917 have died from Covid so far this year[1], despite all the extra measures taken to limit its spread and mortality rate. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p1213-flu-death-estimate.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p1213-flu-death-esti... [1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

stateofnounion 6y ago
> and then subtly shifting between deaths from Covid and deaths during a flu wave (so not caused by the flu?). Newsflash, genius. They are counting every person that died with COVID (or even "presumed" positive) as a death from COVID-19. The actual number of people that were killed directly by COVID is not known, just like we don't measure, test, or track every single person that dies of flu each year. It's an estimate that's arrived at long after the fact by reviewing data.
- cbsks 6y ago
  In California, deaths are only counted if the death certificate has “COVID-19” as the cause of death. If someone is hit by a car and is also positive for COVID-19, that shouldn’t be counted. > Cumulative number of COVID-related deaths as reported by local health department, beginning March 19, 2020. This determination is made by local health departments based on the cause of death reported on death certificates. It is expected that, to be counted, COVID is the cause of death or at least a contributing factor to the death. COVID-related deaths are also counted in “Positive Cases”. https://covid19.ca.gov/data-and-tools/ https://covid19.ca.gov/data-and-tools/
  - stateofnounion 6y ago
    That language says nothing about whether a positive test is required to attribute a death to COVID-19. Here is the CDC's policy: > In cases where a definite diagnosis of COVID–19 cannot be made, but it is suspected or likely (e.g., the circumstances are compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty), it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.” There is also a lack of consistency between how states count deaths: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/which-deaths-count-toward-the-covid-19-death-toll-it-depends-on-the-state/2020/04/16/bca84ae0-7991-11ea-a130-df573469f094_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/which-deaths-c...
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  Thanks for the newsflash, fellow genius. So are you saying that the number of people killed by Covid isn't known, and the number of people killed by flu each year isn't known, so we basically have no valid data and can't compare the two diseases in any meaningful way? If not, what would you say is a reasonable way to compare them?
SamBam 6y ago
> The people dying from corona are mainly those who are statistically dying this year because they have reached the end of their lives The excess deaths statistics [1] give lie to the tired claim that these were all people who "would have died anyway." 200,000+ more people have died this year in the US alone than normal, and it's very statistically-significant, particularly as the annual death rate is under 3 million. 1. https://www.sciencealert.com/2020-has-killed-up-to-200-000-extra-people-in-the-us-so-far https://www.sciencealert.com/2020-has-killed-up-to-200-000-e...
- hiram112 6y ago
  You won't be able to prove your assertion until there is a known vaccination that helps elderly people avoid Covid. At that point, if these deaths occured in elderly who were probably within a year of dying even without covid, we'd expect to see next year a much smaller amount of deaths compared to average, because so many people died one year early.
- ghufran_syed 6y ago
  I’m an ER doc, it’s unclear to me how many of these excess deaths are due to covid, or due to the covid lockdown. I am sure that many are due to covid, but patients avoiding hospital due to the worry about covid, cancelling surgeries, and delaying chemotherapy adversely affects health too. The US government paying for covid care is also a positive step for society, but it does have the effect that patients who have no covid symptoms but have a positive screening test who die of non-covid pathology will end up being labelled a covid death in order to maximize the hospital and physician reimbursement.
  - javagram 6y ago
    I’ve seen statistical analysis that shows US states that had a lockdown, but not a high number of covid cases, don’t have excess deaths. * https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301975654771064834?s=20 https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301975654771064834?... * https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301976643146317825?s=20 https://twitter.com/lymanstoneky/status/1301976643146317825?... This suggests undiagnosed COVID is in fact the cause of most of the excess deaths.
Izkata 6y ago
> > the flu wave in 2017/18 > a whole year (or two?) of normal flu Flu season is fall to spring, that range is (northern hemisphere) half a year. Both years are given because it started in 2017 and ended in 2018.
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  If the original claim was being made in good faith I would agree that "2017/18" means a single year, but given the other prevarications I couldn't rule out an attempt at double-counting.

tasogare 6y ago

Same in France: the government destroyed the economy and made the worst massive privation of liberty since the establishment of the Republic (even the German invader didn’t go that far during WWII). So of course they’re trying to covert their misdeeds by lying about the virus dangerosity to avoid people’s backlash.

spirobel 6y ago

citizen! you have committed wrongthink!

drummer 6y ago
It does indeed appear that you are correct.

TheBigSalad 6y ago

Do you realize how many people the flu kills? We don't need another flu.