6 ms·

There is an important point to make here. Sweden doesn’t have any laws where the government can order a shutdown. So even if they wanted to do a lockdown they c

by he0001 6y ago

There is an important point to make here. Sweden doesn’t have any laws where the government can order a shutdown. So even if they wanted to do a lockdown they couldn’t. Doctors can order individuals to be quarantined but not the country as a whole.

tpmx 6y ago
False. There is a large number of things that the government can limit/recommend to not used/etc that haven't been utilized. (I do recognize this argument from when arguing about this with swedish leftists.)
- he0001 6y ago
  No. A Swedish citizen is, in general, free to go wherever they want on Swedish soil, including private property. This is protected by the Swedish constitution and one of the oldest base laws[0]. Also one reason to the governments slow reaction was due to they had to figure out what laws they could use in a situation like this. [0] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/darfor-kan-sverige-inte-utfarda-utegangsforbud https://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/darfor-kan-sverige-inte...
  - okamiueru 6y ago
    Although this is true, the government, with enough political will could make the necessary changes. So instead of scurrying to find actions allowed within existing laws, they very well could have gone the way Norway did in enacting special measures, making greater restrictions legal. Also, there is a very far stretch between what that article discusses, and the measures other Scandinavian countries took (closing schools, limiting size of congregations, etc). The greatest limitation of "free movement" in Norway at least, was the restriction of cabin use when that cabin was in a different municipality.
    - he0001 6y ago
      Well, you don’t change a base law just like that and to do that would require a lot of other laws to be changed. And I’m not sure they would have gathered enough political will to do those changes. And that’s also what the government concluded. It’s kind of what the 2nd amendment to a US citizen is, and an individual right to do whatever they please without having the government to interfere.
gowld 6y ago
Are the laws actually clear in many countries? Or is this a matter of the political culture? In the US, at least, the government's behavior has only a loose asociation with "the law"
- he0001 6y ago
  I can’t speak for all countries, but in this situation the Swedish government have purposely few laws where they can act, in general, against groups of citizens. Which is a problem with gang related crimes etc. In the case of a pandemic, the profession that handles it are doctors and their government body. But they only have the power for individuals and areas. Though even then the base idea of an individual right is heavier than the right to contain people. As such example, if an individual escapes from prison, the individual is not committing any crime. This is based on the idea of individuals freedom which is the base for all Swedish law.

by he0001 6y ago

tpmx 6y ago

False. There is a large number of things that the government can limit/recommend to not used/etc that haven't been utilized. (I do recognize this argument from when arguing about this with swedish leftists.)

he0001 6y ago
No. A Swedish citizen is, in general, free to go wherever they want on Swedish soil, including private property. This is protected by the Swedish constitution and one of the oldest base laws[0]. Also one reason to the governments slow reaction was due to they had to figure out what laws they could use in a situation like this. [0] https://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/darfor-kan-sverige-inte-utfarda-utegangsforbud https://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/darfor-kan-sverige-inte...
- okamiueru 6y ago
  Although this is true, the government, with enough political will could make the necessary changes. So instead of scurrying to find actions allowed within existing laws, they very well could have gone the way Norway did in enacting special measures, making greater restrictions legal. Also, there is a very far stretch between what that article discusses, and the measures other Scandinavian countries took (closing schools, limiting size of congregations, etc). The greatest limitation of "free movement" in Norway at least, was the restriction of cabin use when that cabin was in a different municipality.
  - he0001 6y ago
    Well, you don’t change a base law just like that and to do that would require a lot of other laws to be changed. And I’m not sure they would have gathered enough political will to do those changes. And that’s also what the government concluded. It’s kind of what the 2nd amendment to a US citizen is, and an individual right to do whatever they please without having the government to interfere.

gowld 6y ago

Are the laws actually clear in many countries? Or is this a matter of the political culture? In the US, at least, the government's behavior has only a loose asociation with "the law"

he0001 6y ago
I can’t speak for all countries, but in this situation the Swedish government have purposely few laws where they can act, in general, against groups of citizens. Which is a problem with gang related crimes etc. In the case of a pandemic, the profession that handles it are doctors and their government body. But they only have the power for individuals and areas. Though even then the base idea of an individual right is heavier than the right to contain people. As such example, if an individual escapes from prison, the individual is not committing any crime. This is based on the idea of individuals freedom which is the base for all Swedish law.