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> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy So many people say "oh, Epic is not the underdog. They are a huge corporation themselves. They do not deserve my sympa

> Epic isn't fighting for the little guy So many people say "oh, Epic is not the underdog. They are a huge corporation themselves. They do not deserve my sympathy." As if they don't support this case, but would have supported it if it was brought by a small independent developer. As if it is morally wrong to support the case because it has been filed by a big company. But guess what, only a multi-billion dollar corporation who is willing to spend north of a billion dollar on legal costs can even toy with the idea of suing Apple and winning. Anything smaller, they will be out of business and everyone will be polishing their resumes and studying leetcode before the first snowfall. There will never ever be a serious legal battle against Apple by a small independent mom-and-pop owned warm fuzzy feelings business. Because they just go bankrupt. Many have perished under App Store rules (you remember the case of the curated app review app from a couple of weeks ago?) and many more will perish. But if some company, any company at all, even if it is Blackwater, wins this suit, then there is a precedant. Then there is a path forward. Then, even if it comes to a lawsuit, with the precedent, it may only takes a couple million dollars for the ISV to fight it in court, instead of a couple billion dollars. Then there may be alternative app stores, so instead of just going out of business if an Apple reviewer decides they don't like you app, you can move your app to the alternatives, even if they are run by devil incarnates. Epic may not care about the little guy, but if they win the fight they are fighting, the little guys will benefit immensely.

danShumway 6y ago
I've commented to the same effect at least 2 or 3 times over the duration of this lawsuit, but just to keep repeating: if you get too picky about who is and isn't allowed to advocate for you, eventually everyone will stop advocating for you. A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple. This stuff is important, and advocates for user-freedom and device ownership can't afford to put every company that's criticizing Apple through a purity test to make sure that they've never done anything anti-consumer themselves. Think back to Google vs Oracle. You don't need to like a company overall to agree with them in one specific lawsuit.
- CharlesW 6y ago
  > A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple. Absolutely not. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/apple-approves-hey-email-app-at-center-of-controversy-ahead-of-wwdc.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/apple-approves-hey-email-app...
  - smnrchrds 6y ago
    > A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple [in court]. The in court part was implied in the context of the discussion. Yes, Apple may decide to have mercy on your soul and not fight you in court. But if they decide to fight you, they will win. After all, when fighting Apple, single digit billionaires have no effective access to the legal system.
  - danShumway 6y ago
    It's a real stretch to look at what happened with Hey and think that they took on Apple and won. They re-engineered their app to fit in with Apple's terms offering a completely new service on the platform. And there were no changes to Apple's terms as a result of that, and no net benefit to any other developer. The only benefit that came out of the controversy over Hey was that Epic got another example incident they could trot out in an actual legal case over antitrust that has the potential to impact multiple developers. Hey cannot be the champion in the fight against Apple, they don't have the popularity or resources to win that fight. There was never any chance during Hey's fight with Apple that it was going to result in ordinary consumers being able to decide what code they want to run on their own devices.
    - CharlesW 6y ago
      > It's a real stretch to look at what happened with Hey and think that they took on Apple and won. Hey got what they wanted, as did Apple. This is the way. It's amusing that people think Epic is doing this for the good of anyone other than themselves.
      - 6y ago

danShumway 6y ago

I've commented to the same effect at least 2 or 3 times over the duration of this lawsuit, but just to keep repeating: if you get too picky about who is and isn't allowed to advocate for you, eventually everyone will stop advocating for you. A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple. This stuff is important, and advocates for user-freedom and device ownership can't afford to put every company that's criticizing Apple through a purity test to make sure that they've never done anything anti-consumer themselves. Think back to Google vs Oracle. You don't need to like a company overall to agree with them in one specific lawsuit.

CharlesW 6y ago
> A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple. Absolutely not. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/apple-approves-hey-email-app-at-center-of-controversy-ahead-of-wwdc.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/22/apple-approves-hey-email-app...
- smnrchrds 6y ago
  > A billion dollar company is completely necessary to tackle Apple [in court]. The in court part was implied in the context of the discussion. Yes, Apple may decide to have mercy on your soul and not fight you in court. But if they decide to fight you, they will win. After all, when fighting Apple, single digit billionaires have no effective access to the legal system.
- danShumway 6y ago
  It's a real stretch to look at what happened with Hey and think that they took on Apple and won. They re-engineered their app to fit in with Apple's terms offering a completely new service on the platform. And there were no changes to Apple's terms as a result of that, and no net benefit to any other developer. The only benefit that came out of the controversy over Hey was that Epic got another example incident they could trot out in an actual legal case over antitrust that has the potential to impact multiple developers. Hey cannot be the champion in the fight against Apple, they don't have the popularity or resources to win that fight. There was never any chance during Hey's fight with Apple that it was going to result in ordinary consumers being able to decide what code they want to run on their own devices.
  - CharlesW 6y ago
    > It's a real stretch to look at what happened with Hey and think that they took on Apple and won. Hey got what they wanted, as did Apple. This is the way. It's amusing that people think Epic is doing this for the good of anyone other than themselves.
    - 6y ago