4 ms·

So this showdown between Epic and Apple is really interesting. My thoughts: 1. Epic had to know Apple would go nuclear. If they didn't, they're completely inco

by cletus 6y ago

So this showdown between Epic and Apple is really interesting. My thoughts: 1. Epic had to know Apple would go nuclear. If they didn't, they're completely incompetent. Let's assume that's not the case. So Epic was itching for a fight. Maybe they were delusional about Fortnite's power here? 2. Apple is going nuclear here. The message is that Apple wants to crush this. This is Apple making an example of Epic. It looks like Apple is prepared for this fight and doesn't want it to gain traction; 3. Personally I think for the vast majority of developers the Apple payment ecosystem makes sense. It's just for the likes of Epic, Amazon or Netflix it doesn't as they're large enough to have their own so 30% is a huge fee for those companies and ultimately untenable; 4. Apple's monopoly will end at some point. I have to believe that even Apple knows that. So it's just a question of time and Apple doesn't want it to be now; 5. I don't think the solution is for anyone to be able to have payment infrastructure. That kind of Wild West is no good for anyone. It's just a question of what the compromise looks like; I really do see this as the dying days of the Apple and Google app ecosystems.

pjmlp 6y ago
Like the dying days of Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft game ecosystems?
- viridian 6y ago
  One of those companies is going for a last ditch hail mary while facing financial ruin, and if they aren't successful, they will end up out of the hardware game.
  - AlexandrB 6y ago
    This is news to me. Which one?
    - Spivak 6y ago
      Yeah wait, what? The PS5 has so much hype right now and had some of the best exclusives of this console generation, the Switch has been sold out for months, and the Series X reveal was kinda meh but it's not like the Xbox has been hurting.
      - tick_tock_tick 6y ago
        The probably mean Xbox outside the USA it's not doing too hot which is why they are trying to switch to a SASS platform but I wouldn't say it's dead. console on contract: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-all-access https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-all-access sale data: https://hookedontech.com/xbox-one-vs-ps4-vs-switch-console-and-game-sales-numbers-2020/ https://hookedontech.com/xbox-one-vs-ps4-vs-switch-console-a...
      - viridian 6y ago
        Xbox's financials last two years have been flagging at roughly -2% revenue over expenditures both years, making them the least profitable division within microsoft. This, coupled with the fact that their games software itself had a +30% margin in the 2019 shareholder report, and it's not hard to see the Series X as a possible last ditch effort by the hardware teams.
tempodox 6y ago
Or Apple wins and the corporate silo dystopia gets worse.
criddell 6y ago
> Personally I think for the vast majority of developers the Apple payment ecosystem makes sense. I think if that were true, Apple wouldn't fight this fight. They would find some way to accommodate the giants and keep taking 30% of small developer's paychecks. I think most smaller developers would like the option to choose a different store. They might not use it, but who wouldn't like the option?
- kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
  They have done something like that in the past. They invented a "Reader" app concept that benefits Amazon, Netflix etc. If you are big enough to basically get a private audience with Tim Cook, you can have your lawyers and their lawyers sit together and come up with the exact magic incantations that will excuse what you are trying to do. This is nothing but regulatory capture, just happening at a private level. Meanwhile something like the Hey app has to hope that their complaint gets viral on social media to maybe get a slightly expedited App Review.
mikestew 6y ago
I think for the vast majority of developers the Apple payment ecosystem makes sense. Considering that one can get payment processing for a tenth of Apple's fee, I consider Apple's 30% to be outright usurious. I would be a little more forgiving if that same fee bought some discovery in the App Store, but no. Or maybe faster app reviews. Okay, finally; after how many years of multiple week waits?
- wvenable 6y ago
  Apple makes $500 million a year on app store search ads (they expected to make $2 billion this year). It's crazy that you pay 30% of every purchase to be listed in a store -- but that means nothing -- you still have to pay to be visible. You have people in this thread that are shocked anyone would side with Epic because they obviously broke the agreement but on the other you have people amazed that you can justify paying hundreds of dollars in markup per device, then be charged 30% for any software, and then developers still have to pay annually for access and pay for visibility. And even attempting to tell users cheaper ways to pay isn't allowed. It's like people desperately want to chuck all their income at Apple like dollars to a stripper.

by cletus 6y ago

pjmlp 6y ago

Like the dying days of Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft game ecosystems?

viridian 6y ago
One of those companies is going for a last ditch hail mary while facing financial ruin, and if they aren't successful, they will end up out of the hardware game.
- AlexandrB 6y ago
  This is news to me. Which one?
  - Spivak 6y ago
    Yeah wait, what? The PS5 has so much hype right now and had some of the best exclusives of this console generation, the Switch has been sold out for months, and the Series X reveal was kinda meh but it's not like the Xbox has been hurting.
    - tick_tock_tick 6y ago
      The probably mean Xbox outside the USA it's not doing too hot which is why they are trying to switch to a SASS platform but I wouldn't say it's dead. console on contract: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-all-access https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-all-access sale data: https://hookedontech.com/xbox-one-vs-ps4-vs-switch-console-and-game-sales-numbers-2020/ https://hookedontech.com/xbox-one-vs-ps4-vs-switch-console-a...
    - viridian 6y ago
      Xbox's financials last two years have been flagging at roughly -2% revenue over expenditures both years, making them the least profitable division within microsoft. This, coupled with the fact that their games software itself had a +30% margin in the 2019 shareholder report, and it's not hard to see the Series X as a possible last ditch effort by the hardware teams.

tempodox 6y ago

Or Apple wins and the corporate silo dystopia gets worse.

criddell 6y ago

> Personally I think for the vast majority of developers the Apple payment ecosystem makes sense. I think if that were true, Apple wouldn't fight this fight. They would find some way to accommodate the giants and keep taking 30% of small developer's paychecks. I think most smaller developers would like the option to choose a different store. They might not use it, but who wouldn't like the option?

kinkrtyavimoodh 6y ago
They have done something like that in the past. They invented a "Reader" app concept that benefits Amazon, Netflix etc. If you are big enough to basically get a private audience with Tim Cook, you can have your lawyers and their lawyers sit together and come up with the exact magic incantations that will excuse what you are trying to do. This is nothing but regulatory capture, just happening at a private level. Meanwhile something like the Hey app has to hope that their complaint gets viral on social media to maybe get a slightly expedited App Review.

mikestew 6y ago

I think for the vast majority of developers the Apple payment ecosystem makes sense. Considering that one can get payment processing for a tenth of Apple's fee, I consider Apple's 30% to be outright usurious. I would be a little more forgiving if that same fee bought some discovery in the App Store, but no. Or maybe faster app reviews. Okay, finally; after how many years of multiple week waits?

wvenable 6y ago
Apple makes $500 million a year on app store search ads (they expected to make $2 billion this year). It's crazy that you pay 30% of every purchase to be listed in a store -- but that means nothing -- you still have to pay to be visible. You have people in this thread that are shocked anyone would side with Epic because they obviously broke the agreement but on the other you have people amazed that you can justify paying hundreds of dollars in markup per device, then be charged 30% for any software, and then developers still have to pay annually for access and pay for visibility. And even attempting to tell users cheaper ways to pay isn't allowed. It's like people desperately want to chuck all their income at Apple like dollars to a stripper.