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In France we have HAL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper_Articles_en_Ligne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper_Articles_en_Ligne "Hyper Articles en Ligne, g

by guerby 6y ago

In France we have HAL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper_Articles_en_Ligne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper_Articles_en_Ligne "Hyper Articles en Ligne, generally shortened to HAL, is an open archive where authors can deposit scholarly documents from all academic fields." I work at a university and I know library people and management check carefully that every paper we produce is deposited in HAL. Also: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper_articles_en_ligne https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper_articles_en_ligne "Depuis le 25 septembre 2018, les dépôts de logiciels sur HAL sont connectés à Software Heritage" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Heritage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Heritage For recruiting some french institutions like CNRS will only consider papers deposited in HAL when doing the evaluation.

Thlom 6y ago
In Norway any publication needs to be deposited to the national archive by law. That includes scientific journals and in theory even small publications distributed in a private setting if it's a big enough group of people (I'm not sure of the details). Not sure how it works for scientific work published in foreign publications, but I assume it's sent to the national archive as routine. However, most of the archive is not publicly accessible due to copyright, privacy etc. You can request access to specific content both as a private person and as a researcher.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  In the US, I believe the Library of Congress fills a similar role.
  - vram22 6y ago
    IIRC, some years back I read that the Library even had a full archive of all of Twitter, up to that date at least.
    - at-fates-hands 6y ago
      They changed their policy back in 2017: However, almost 12 years of tweets is still very cool. A LOT of startups probably had quite a bit of material in those early days of social media. But today, the institution announced it will no longer archive every one of our status updates, opinion threads, and "big if true"s. As of Jan. 1, the library will only acquire tweets "on a very selective basis." The library says it began archiving tweets "for the same reason it collects other materials — to acquire and preserve a record of knowledge and creativity for Congress and the American people." The archive stretches back to Twitter's beginning, in 2006. The institution says it will continue to preserve its collection of tweets from the platform's first 12 years, but indicates that it has yet to figure out exactly how to make the archive public. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/26/573609499/library-of-congress-will-no-longer-archive-every-tweet https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/26/573609499...
    - stjohnswarts 6y ago
      what a waste of disk space :)
    - dr-detroit 6y ago
      Oh jeez. That's where all my money went. GREAT. Now we have an archive of bots marketing trash to bots.
- acomjean 6y ago
  the US for medical/biology papers "The National Center for Biotechnology Information" NCBI. They store papers/ abstracts in a service called pubmed, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov It works pretty well. Papers are submitted. The get a unique id. Some are stored and accessible. (Some US funding sources require public accessible papers.). NCBI has a ton of information. Its a pretty awesome resource. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov They even index the paper submitted with a controlled vocabulary of terms (within a month or two) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/
  - mattkrause 6y ago
    Nearly all federally-funded (and unclassified) research needs to be publicly accessible, as per a 2013 policy memo.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jmmcd 6y ago
Yes, and of course we have arXiv and friends, and sci-hub, and researchers' and institutions' own pages. But all this misses the point a little -- it is not just the articles that should be preserved, but the journal itself, as a collection of articles with metadata (including the fact that it was collected in the journal), records of editorial boards, editorial articles, etc.
hwbehrens 6y ago
A similar service, arXiv[0], is used in other fields as well. In fact, the parent study that we're discussing was itself found on arXiv. However, arXiv is (or aims to be) a supra-national organization. Do you think it is preferable to have an international standard repository for this knowledge like arXiv, a network of federated, national systems such as HAL, or both? ArXiv has historically sometimes found itself hard-up for funding, so I think that a valid argument could be made for both approaches. [0]: https://arxiv.org/ https://arxiv.org/
- toxik 6y ago
  FYI, arxiv is for the pre-prints, i.e. the papers as they are before peer review and publication in a proper journal. IEEE and friends hold the copyright to the articles after that, and generally do _not_ want you to publish "their" version. Which is strange, as you paid them to publish your article, that was likely paid for by state funding -- aka tax money. Ah, the academic racket is so beautiful.
- guerby 6y ago
  HAL proposes to authors automatic transfer to a few open archives: "Transfert automatique des documents vers une archive ouverte internationale telle qu'ArXiv ou Pubmed Central "
LunaSea 6y ago
French people using unknown french standards only, news at 20h00.
- waihtis 6y ago
  Your quote prompted me to read the Minitel wikipedia entry, and apparently there was still 10 million monthly connections on it in 2009. Unfortunately it was retired in 2012; would have been interesting to see how it would fare today.
- hpfr 6y ago
  Ironically, the French time format is best in my opinion, because some operating systems and services can’t handle colons in file names. ISO 8601 allows for Thhmmss.sss which can be represented in filenames, but I’d rather use something like 20h33m02.345 because it’s much easier to read at a glance than T203302.345, which looks like one decimal number.
  - OJFord 6y ago
    It appeals to me as an EE (by training) too. I've occasionally slipped a '£2k3' or similar and had to explain...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- guerby 6y ago
  protocol and metadata in HAL follows OAI-PMH: Open Archives Initiative - Protocol Metadata Harvesting https://www.openarchives.org/pmh/ https://www.openarchives.org/pmh/ With a very long list of institutions following the same standard.
  - LunaSea 6y ago
    They simply have a compatibility layer with OAI-PMH it's disingenuous to present the list of Open Archives Initiative participants as somehow being related to the HAL project.
physicsguy 6y ago
In the UK we have to deposit with the institution you were working/studying at. It's a bit annoying as there's no central place to deposit.
- Nemo_bis 6y ago
  You can use Zenodo (hosted at CERN with some EU funding). https://zenodo.org/ https://zenodo.org/
BelleOfTheBall 6y ago
I'm astonished there's not an equivalent for this literally everywhere. Even if some articles seem not terribly important at the moment, as progress marches on many could become relevant again and losing access to those is simply inexcusable.
- mattkrause 6y ago
  There (mostly) is. Work funded by the NIH needs to end up in PubMed Central within a year of publication. The NSF and DoE have similar policies. Unclassified DoD-funded work also needs to end up in the Defense Technical Information Center. All of this flows from a 2013 memo by John Holdren/OST entitled "Increasing Access to Results of Federally Funded Science", and, as far as I know, it hasn't been overturned. While this doesn't formally cover everything, it comes pretty close and many journals now handle this automatically. The memo is here: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2016/02/22/increasing-access-results-federally-funded-science https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2016/02/22/increas... Canada has a similar policy for Tri-Council funded research (here: http://www.science.gc.ca/eic/site/063.nsf/eng/h_F6765465.html?OpenDocument http://www.science.gc.ca/eic/site/063.nsf/eng/h_F6765465.htm...) but does not require specific repositories.
bnewbold 6y ago
In Latin America, the SciELO network has been very successful at providing shared, low-cost, stable infrastructure for digital journal hosting using state funding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SciELO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SciELO
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
tasogare 6y ago
> For recruiting some french institutions like CNRS will only consider papers deposited in HAL when doing the evaluation. While I like HAL in general as a consumer, that policy is terrible if true for people like me who started their academic career abroad. One more reason not to go back, I guess.
- tgflynn 6y ago
  I would be very surprised if there wasn't some exception for papers published abroad. Otherwise they would be potentially ignoring a lot of information about candidates.
- programLyrique 6y ago
  You can add all articles afterwards (even though it can be tedious). There is actually a tool that is supported by HAL that makes it easier to quickly add all your publications by just giving your name: https://dissem.in/ https://dissem.in/ For instance, it automatically fills in all the metadata for your publications.
programLyrique 6y ago
Actually, although it is mainly directed to French researchers, nothing prevents researchers not based in France to deposit their papers there.
ridaj 6y ago
It would be even better if the papers that are referenced were also archived in the same store... not for republication, which I guess could have copyright issues, but for the sake of preserving the prior art that may be necessary to understand context and the specific advances described in a paper
juliendorra 6y ago
One major issue with HAL is that they accepted (under political/hierarchical pressure) to host only references without the actual paper PDF. So now its archive is filled with bibliographic references without any article archived paper. It’s totally counter to its original purpose, and was implemented for researchers to be able to fulfill the internal CNRS mandate to list their paper on HAL without needing to actually host the paper there.
Nemo_bis 6y ago
Do you do bulk archival on your own will, i.e. without the authors having to ask and provide files? For instance, there are about 140k works under a Creative Commons license (mostly free ones, some unfree) from French authors, most of which aren't preserved on any open archive. https://www.lens.org/lens/search/scholar/list?p=0&n=10&s=referenced_by_patent_count&d=%2B&f=false&e=false&l=en&authorField=author&dateFilterField=publishedYear&orderBy=%2Breferenced_by_patent_count&presentation=false&stemmed=true&useAuthorId=false&country.must=FR&openAccessLicense.must=cc-by&openAccessLicense.must=cc-by-nc&openAccessLicense.must=cc-by-nc-nd&openAccessLicense.must=cc-by-nc-sa&openAccessLicense.must=cc0&openAccessLicense.must=cc-by-sa https://www.lens.org/lens/search/scholar/list?p=0&n=10&s=ref...

by guerby 6y ago

Thlom 6y ago

In Norway any publication needs to be deposited to the national archive by law. That includes scientific journals and in theory even small publications distributed in a private setting if it's a big enough group of people (I'm not sure of the details). Not sure how it works for scientific work published in foreign publications, but I assume it's sent to the national archive as routine. However, most of the archive is not publicly accessible due to copyright, privacy etc. You can request access to specific content both as a private person and as a researcher.

thaumasiotes 6y ago
In the US, I believe the Library of Congress fills a similar role.
- vram22 6y ago
  IIRC, some years back I read that the Library even had a full archive of all of Twitter, up to that date at least.
  - at-fates-hands 6y ago
    They changed their policy back in 2017: However, almost 12 years of tweets is still very cool. A LOT of startups probably had quite a bit of material in those early days of social media. But today, the institution announced it will no longer archive every one of our status updates, opinion threads, and "big if true"s. As of Jan. 1, the library will only acquire tweets "on a very selective basis." The library says it began archiving tweets "for the same reason it collects other materials — to acquire and preserve a record of knowledge and creativity for Congress and the American people." The archive stretches back to Twitter's beginning, in 2006. The institution says it will continue to preserve its collection of tweets from the platform's first 12 years, but indicates that it has yet to figure out exactly how to make the archive public. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/26/573609499/library-of-congress-will-no-longer-archive-every-tweet https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/12/26/573609499...
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    what a waste of disk space :)
  - dr-detroit 6y ago
    Oh jeez. That's where all my money went. GREAT. Now we have an archive of bots marketing trash to bots.
acomjean 6y ago
the US for medical/biology papers "The National Center for Biotechnology Information" NCBI. They store papers/ abstracts in a service called pubmed, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov It works pretty well. Papers are submitted. The get a unique id. Some are stored and accessible. (Some US funding sources require public accessible papers.). NCBI has a ton of information. Its a pretty awesome resource. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov They even index the paper submitted with a controlled vocabulary of terms (within a month or two) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/mesh/
- mattkrause 6y ago
  Nearly all federally-funded (and unclassified) research needs to be publicly accessible, as per a 2013 policy memo.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jmmcd 6y ago

Yes, and of course we have arXiv and friends, and sci-hub, and researchers' and institutions' own pages. But all this misses the point a little -- it is not just the articles that should be preserved, but the journal itself, as a collection of articles with metadata (including the fact that it was collected in the journal), records of editorial boards, editorial articles, etc.

hwbehrens 6y ago

A similar service, arXiv[0], is used in other fields as well. In fact, the parent study that we're discussing was itself found on arXiv. However, arXiv is (or aims to be) a supra-national organization. Do you think it is preferable to have an international standard repository for this knowledge like arXiv, a network of federated, national systems such as HAL, or both? ArXiv has historically sometimes found itself hard-up for funding, so I think that a valid argument could be made for both approaches. [0]: https://arxiv.org/ https://arxiv.org/

toxik 6y ago
FYI, arxiv is for the pre-prints, i.e. the papers as they are before peer review and publication in a proper journal. IEEE and friends hold the copyright to the articles after that, and generally do _not_ want you to publish "their" version. Which is strange, as you paid them to publish your article, that was likely paid for by state funding -- aka tax money. Ah, the academic racket is so beautiful.
guerby 6y ago
HAL proposes to authors automatic transfer to a few open archives: "Transfert automatique des documents vers une archive ouverte internationale telle qu'ArXiv ou Pubmed Central "

LunaSea 6y ago

French people using unknown french standards only, news at 20h00.

waihtis 6y ago
Your quote prompted me to read the Minitel wikipedia entry, and apparently there was still 10 million monthly connections on it in 2009. Unfortunately it was retired in 2012; would have been interesting to see how it would fare today.
hpfr 6y ago
Ironically, the French time format is best in my opinion, because some operating systems and services can’t handle colons in file names. ISO 8601 allows for Thhmmss.sss which can be represented in filenames, but I’d rather use something like 20h33m02.345 because it’s much easier to read at a glance than T203302.345, which looks like one decimal number.
- OJFord 6y ago
  It appeals to me as an EE (by training) too. I've occasionally slipped a '£2k3' or similar and had to explain...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
guerby 6y ago
protocol and metadata in HAL follows OAI-PMH: Open Archives Initiative - Protocol Metadata Harvesting https://www.openarchives.org/pmh/ https://www.openarchives.org/pmh/ With a very long list of institutions following the same standard.
- LunaSea 6y ago
  They simply have a compatibility layer with OAI-PMH it's disingenuous to present the list of Open Archives Initiative participants as somehow being related to the HAL project.

physicsguy 6y ago

In the UK we have to deposit with the institution you were working/studying at. It's a bit annoying as there's no central place to deposit.

Nemo_bis 6y ago
You can use Zenodo (hosted at CERN with some EU funding). https://zenodo.org/ https://zenodo.org/

BelleOfTheBall 6y ago

I'm astonished there's not an equivalent for this literally everywhere. Even if some articles seem not terribly important at the moment, as progress marches on many could become relevant again and losing access to those is simply inexcusable.

mattkrause 6y ago
There (mostly) is. Work funded by the NIH needs to end up in PubMed Central within a year of publication. The NSF and DoE have similar policies. Unclassified DoD-funded work also needs to end up in the Defense Technical Information Center. All of this flows from a 2013 memo by John Holdren/OST entitled "Increasing Access to Results of Federally Funded Science", and, as far as I know, it hasn't been overturned. While this doesn't formally cover everything, it comes pretty close and many journals now handle this automatically. The memo is here: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2016/02/22/increasing-access-results-federally-funded-science https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2016/02/22/increas... Canada has a similar policy for Tri-Council funded research (here: http://www.science.gc.ca/eic/site/063.nsf/eng/h_F6765465.html?OpenDocument http://www.science.gc.ca/eic/site/063.nsf/eng/h_F6765465.htm...) but does not require specific repositories.

bnewbold 6y ago

In Latin America, the SciELO network has been very successful at providing shared, low-cost, stable infrastructure for digital journal hosting using state funding: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SciELO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SciELO

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

tasogare 6y ago

> For recruiting some french institutions like CNRS will only consider papers deposited in HAL when doing the evaluation. While I like HAL in general as a consumer, that policy is terrible if true for people like me who started their academic career abroad. One more reason not to go back, I guess.

tgflynn 6y ago
I would be very surprised if there wasn't some exception for papers published abroad. Otherwise they would be potentially ignoring a lot of information about candidates.
programLyrique 6y ago
You can add all articles afterwards (even though it can be tedious). There is actually a tool that is supported by HAL that makes it easier to quickly add all your publications by just giving your name: https://dissem.in/ https://dissem.in/ For instance, it automatically fills in all the metadata for your publications.

programLyrique 6y ago

Actually, although it is mainly directed to French researchers, nothing prevents researchers not based in France to deposit their papers there.

ridaj 6y ago

It would be even better if the papers that are referenced were also archived in the same store... not for republication, which I guess could have copyright issues, but for the sake of preserving the prior art that may be necessary to understand context and the specific advances described in a paper

juliendorra 6y ago

One major issue with HAL is that they accepted (under political/hierarchical pressure) to host only references without the actual paper PDF. So now its archive is filled with bibliographic references without any article archived paper. It’s totally counter to its original purpose, and was implemented for researchers to be able to fulfill the internal CNRS mandate to list their paper on HAL without needing to actually host the paper there.

Nemo_bis 6y ago

Do you do bulk archival on your own will, i.e. without the authors having to ask and provide files? For instance, there are about 140k works under a Creative Commons license (mostly free ones, some unfree) from French authors, most of which aren't preserved on any open archive. https://www.lens.org/lens/search/scholar/list?p=0&n=10&s=referenced_by_patent_count&d=%2B&f=false&e=false&l=en&authorField=author&dateFilterField=publishedYear&orderBy=%2Breferenced_by_patent_count&presentation=false&stemmed=true&useAuthorId=false&country.must=FR&openAccessLicense.must=cc-by&openAccessLicense.must=cc-by-nc&openAccessLicense.must=cc-by-nc-nd&openAccessLicense.must=cc-by-nc-sa&openAccessLicense.must=cc0&openAccessLicense.must=cc-by-sa https://www.lens.org/lens/search/scholar/list?p=0&n=10&s=ref...