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This index has a lot of noise. C++ is only up because Sep 2019 was a low point. Its popularity is lower than in June 2019 for example. I wouldn't put much stock

by in3d 6y ago

This index has a lot of noise. C++ is only up because Sep 2019 was a low point. Its popularity is lower than in June 2019 for example. I wouldn't put much stock in this and I like C++. Does anybody really believe that C actually fell from 17.15% in Nov 2015 to 6.5% in Aug 2017 and then went back up to 15.45% in Sep 2018? (https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/)

armoredkitten 6y ago
This could really benefit from using some sort of a moving average to smooth out these minor fluctuations. The long-term trend for C++ is clearly downward [0], yet a small increase from the previous month becomes a news headline. But you're also right that some of the larger trends are suspect as well. The big dip in C and Java in 2016-2017 could just as easily be due (at least in part) to a change in Google's search algorithm. The index doesn't solely rely on Google, but it certainly makes up a large part of the index [1]. There's no perfect metric for any of this, but making announcements about 1-month changes to a noisy estimate is not particularly convincing. [0] https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/cplusplus/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/cplusplus/ [1] https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-definition/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-defi...
rumanator 6y ago
> This index has a lot of noise. I would go even further and state that TIOBE is deprived of any meaningful value. It's basically a index that tracks web noise. I mean with TIOBE, C++'s ranking goes up if someone writes a blog post with a joke that goes "A C++ developer walks into a bar...". I wouldn't be surprised if this post in HN is contributing to the bump. TIOBE is what you get from garbage-in. > I wouldn't put much stock in this and I like C++. I would bet that C++20 led some bloggers to post random stuff with C++ in it.
ncmncm 6y ago
Agreed, TIOBE is meaningless. But C++ usage really is growing faster than ever, judging by the number of C++ conferences that had been scheduled in 2020, and the monotonically increasing number of attendees at the far-flung, tri-ennial ISO C++ Standard conferences. But TIOBE is not a reliable measure; when it's right, it is as accidental as the stopped clock that is right twice a day.

by in3d 6y ago

armoredkitten 6y ago

This could really benefit from using some sort of a moving average to smooth out these minor fluctuations. The long-term trend for C++ is clearly downward [0], yet a small increase from the previous month becomes a news headline. But you're also right that some of the larger trends are suspect as well. The big dip in C and Java in 2016-2017 could just as easily be due (at least in part) to a change in Google's search algorithm. The index doesn't solely rely on Google, but it certainly makes up a large part of the index [1]. There's no perfect metric for any of this, but making announcements about 1-month changes to a noisy estimate is not particularly convincing. [0] https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/cplusplus/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/cplusplus/ [1] https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-definition/ https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/programming-languages-defi...

rumanator 6y ago

> This index has a lot of noise. I would go even further and state that TIOBE is deprived of any meaningful value. It's basically a index that tracks web noise. I mean with TIOBE, C++'s ranking goes up if someone writes a blog post with a joke that goes "A C++ developer walks into a bar...". I wouldn't be surprised if this post in HN is contributing to the bump. TIOBE is what you get from garbage-in. > I wouldn't put much stock in this and I like C++. I would bet that C++20 led some bloggers to post random stuff with C++ in it.

ncmncm 6y ago

Agreed, TIOBE is meaningless. But C++ usage really is growing faster than ever, judging by the number of C++ conferences that had been scheduled in 2020, and the monotonically increasing number of attendees at the far-flung, tri-ennial ISO C++ Standard conferences. But TIOBE is not a reliable measure; when it's right, it is as accidental as the stopped clock that is right twice a day.