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> and no big screen for maps One of the reasons I haven't bought a new car is because I pretty actively don't want a touch screen in my car. It just screams u

> and no big screen for maps One of the reasons I haven't bought a new car is because I pretty actively don't want a touch screen in my car. It just screams unsafe to me, and all the research I've seen coming out recently agrees with me. I don't want to have to stare at my console just to change the radio channel, to turn up the A/C, etc. It's insane to me that people think this is a pro instead of a negative.

the_other 6y ago
It’s a pro the same way web apps are a pro: cost to manufacture & deliver.
rstupek 6y ago
You don't have to stare at the screen in a Tesla to change the radio or turn up the A/C, those controls are on the steering wheel.
- RandoHolmes 6y ago
  Here's what I actually said, with added emphasis. > I don't want to have to stare at my console just to change the radio channel, to turn up the A/C, ETC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera > et cetera is a Latin expression that is used in English to mean "and other similar things", or "and so forth". I'm sure this will come across as harsh as it's meant to be, but you went after a strawman so fair is fair. My actual point is that if you're doing ANYTHING while driving that involves staring at a touch screen to ensure you touch the correct part of it, often multiple times as you hunt through menu's, then it's less safe than not having the touch screen. This point is not invalidated because you can change the volume via your steering wheel.
  - LordDragonfang 6y ago
    The fact that you're using the actual radio at all puts you in the minority of new car buyers. Pretty much everyone I know under 30 just plays music or podcasts off their phone (which is an even tinier touchscreen). I don't see that trend reversing anytime soon.
jonathanlydall 6y ago
I agree that controls for things like AC on a touch screen are a terrible idea. I use Waze all the time as it shows speed limit and warns of road blocks by cops (which are notoriously corrupt where I live). But for a lot of cars in my experience, the screen is only used for infotainment in which case I would love to have Waze to show on it. I always plot my route before starting to drive so I have no need to touch the screen during the trip. Fortunately push-to-talk and volume control buttons on steering wheels is very common these days, so I don't need to touch my screen to skip tracks (or switch between pre-programmed radio stations), change volume or initiate a hands free phone call. Siri activated by the push-to-talk button is also good enough to use to message back to people you're driving and will get back to them later, or tell your spouse you're on way to them now.
- RandoHolmes 6y ago
  If interaction with the big screen were purely passive then I wouldn't have an issue with it. The problem is that it's a touch screen and is, by definition, not passive.
  - jonathanlydall 6y ago
    For the way I use the screens, to all intents and purposes they are passive while I'm driving. I don't have a need (or want) to touch them at all while the car is moving. I set up my map route before I pull off, often on the phone before I get in the car, then that's it for the rest of the trip. Controls for everything else like AC, volume, switching radio station/track is not needing to be done with the screen, it's all through classic buttons/knobs or steering wheel controls. I would not buy a car which required the screen to be touched for these things. I don't see anything objectively more or less dangerous about operating a radio in this way, the only real difference is that instead of your radio frequency being visible through 7 segment displays, it's now on a high resolution display.
    - RandoHolmes 6y ago
      > I don't see anything objectively more or less dangerous about operating a radio in this way In my current vehicle I can change stations without taking my eyes off the road, I don't feel as if I'd be able to do that if it were on a touch screen due to the lack of tactile feedback. Also, I've rented a few vehicles and I've never seen one that didn't have things like A/C on the touch screen, which is part of why I've formed the opinion I have. OTOH, what I've rented are minivans, where A/C is a bit more complex since it will often have a "driver/passenger" dichotomy as well as a "front/back"dichotomy.
leetcrew 6y ago
I have a car from 2017. it has a modestly large touchscreen with android auto / apple carplay support, but it's old enough that most of the basic car functionality (lights, A/C, seat heaters) is still implemented in hard buttons. this is the sweet spot, imo. if desired, I set up navigation and queue some music while parked. there's no need to interact with the touchscreen while the car is in motion. I do find it much nicer to have maps on an 8" infotainment screen than on a tiny phone screen with a mount that's suction-cupped onto some part of the interior. it's not so great to be worth buying a whole new car over though. as long as you have bluetooth in the head unit, a phone in a mount with a charger is still pretty good.
- RandoHolmes 6y ago
  yeah, if it were passive only, I'd 100% be ok with it. Being able to slap the map up on the larger screen is a definite win. I just don't want to be interacting with it in a touch screen way while driving.

the_other 6y ago

It’s a pro the same way web apps are a pro: cost to manufacture & deliver.

rstupek 6y ago

You don't have to stare at the screen in a Tesla to change the radio or turn up the A/C, those controls are on the steering wheel.

RandoHolmes 6y ago
Here's what I actually said, with added emphasis. > I don't want to have to stare at my console just to change the radio channel, to turn up the A/C, ETC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera > et cetera is a Latin expression that is used in English to mean "and other similar things", or "and so forth". I'm sure this will come across as harsh as it's meant to be, but you went after a strawman so fair is fair. My actual point is that if you're doing ANYTHING while driving that involves staring at a touch screen to ensure you touch the correct part of it, often multiple times as you hunt through menu's, then it's less safe than not having the touch screen. This point is not invalidated because you can change the volume via your steering wheel.
- LordDragonfang 6y ago
  The fact that you're using the actual radio at all puts you in the minority of new car buyers. Pretty much everyone I know under 30 just plays music or podcasts off their phone (which is an even tinier touchscreen). I don't see that trend reversing anytime soon.

jonathanlydall 6y ago

I agree that controls for things like AC on a touch screen are a terrible idea. I use Waze all the time as it shows speed limit and warns of road blocks by cops (which are notoriously corrupt where I live). But for a lot of cars in my experience, the screen is only used for infotainment in which case I would love to have Waze to show on it. I always plot my route before starting to drive so I have no need to touch the screen during the trip. Fortunately push-to-talk and volume control buttons on steering wheels is very common these days, so I don't need to touch my screen to skip tracks (or switch between pre-programmed radio stations), change volume or initiate a hands free phone call. Siri activated by the push-to-talk button is also good enough to use to message back to people you're driving and will get back to them later, or tell your spouse you're on way to them now.

RandoHolmes 6y ago
If interaction with the big screen were purely passive then I wouldn't have an issue with it. The problem is that it's a touch screen and is, by definition, not passive.
- jonathanlydall 6y ago
  For the way I use the screens, to all intents and purposes they are passive while I'm driving. I don't have a need (or want) to touch them at all while the car is moving. I set up my map route before I pull off, often on the phone before I get in the car, then that's it for the rest of the trip. Controls for everything else like AC, volume, switching radio station/track is not needing to be done with the screen, it's all through classic buttons/knobs or steering wheel controls. I would not buy a car which required the screen to be touched for these things. I don't see anything objectively more or less dangerous about operating a radio in this way, the only real difference is that instead of your radio frequency being visible through 7 segment displays, it's now on a high resolution display.
  - RandoHolmes 6y ago
    > I don't see anything objectively more or less dangerous about operating a radio in this way In my current vehicle I can change stations without taking my eyes off the road, I don't feel as if I'd be able to do that if it were on a touch screen due to the lack of tactile feedback. Also, I've rented a few vehicles and I've never seen one that didn't have things like A/C on the touch screen, which is part of why I've formed the opinion I have. OTOH, what I've rented are minivans, where A/C is a bit more complex since it will often have a "driver/passenger" dichotomy as well as a "front/back"dichotomy.

leetcrew 6y ago

I have a car from 2017. it has a modestly large touchscreen with android auto / apple carplay support, but it's old enough that most of the basic car functionality (lights, A/C, seat heaters) is still implemented in hard buttons. this is the sweet spot, imo. if desired, I set up navigation and queue some music while parked. there's no need to interact with the touchscreen while the car is in motion. I do find it much nicer to have maps on an 8" infotainment screen than on a tiny phone screen with a mount that's suction-cupped onto some part of the interior. it's not so great to be worth buying a whole new car over though. as long as you have bluetooth in the head unit, a phone in a mount with a charger is still pretty good.

RandoHolmes 6y ago
yeah, if it were passive only, I'd 100% be ok with it. Being able to slap the map up on the larger screen is a definite win. I just don't want to be interacting with it in a touch screen way while driving.