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As I've grown older I've noticed this, though at a slower pace than described in the article. When I was younger and lived in the appalachians, there were coun

As I've grown older I've noticed this, though at a slower pace than described in the article. When I was younger and lived in the appalachians, there were countless of waterfalls, overlooks, and camping spots isolated and away from everyone. But as time went by, these places became less isolated and full of litter, even the more remote spots. As much as I dislike Instagram and its effect on natural areas, I think another large factor is the population count. The US has 46 million more people than 20 years ago, and that's more people looking to get out and have fun in nature. One hope is for state and federal conservation agencies to buy more private land and enter into more conservation land trusts. We need more public space for people to enjoy, hopefully with fewer ATVs and campsite garbage.

djsumdog 6y ago
There's a great book called Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey where he talks about the old national parks that were free, and where driving was banned. You had to hike/bike/horse your way in, and people came to spend long periods traveling through the parks. He watched as the park services started building roads through national parks, and more parking lots, and how that changed absolutely everything. It also has a lot of old stories about the area. It's an amazing book.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  Friend of mine mentioned one place that used to be protected BLM land. To get there you needed to drive down a 10 mile dirt road. Usually there would be 0 to 2 cars/trucks parked there. It was handed over to the park service to 'protect it' now there is a paved road, a parking lot with pit toilets and two dozen cars and trucks. This sort of thing is why I'm totally opposed to giving the park service more stuff. Park Service should stick to managing Public monuments and the half dozen national parks that serve as sacrifice areas that draw tourists way from everything else.
  - wetmore 6y ago
    This is complicated. Certain areas see too much traffic in their primitive state and need infrastructure like a bathroom. In this case causation may be going the other way.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      The problem is the park service actively advertises places which brings in more people. More people requires infrastructure. Which brings in more people. Better is to not advertise and if there are too many people require permits. It may be beneficial to remove infrastructure. For instance blocking of roads that allow access. Because most things that aren't heavily advertised and are more than a mile from a road see very little traffic.
cmrx64 6y ago
when i go for a hike i bring a trash bag and often come out with it full. maybe consider similar and convincing your social contacts to do so instead of deferring to some other authority? the commons are what we make of them, and “it’s someone else’s responsibility” is the heart of the tragedy.
- strict9 6y ago
  My family does this on state-owned park land near where they live, but it's never enough. A solution of hoping people see the error of their ways doesn't seem realistic to me. As far as deferring to authority is concerned, there is some benefit. Hunters were the worst offenders for leaving garbage behind, but now with the state owning much of the land, hunting is no longer allowed. Now there aren't hunters leaving behind piles of trash and illegally built blinds but there are more people out enjoying nature. Deferring to someone else isn't the solution, but it also isn't a tragedy.
- DanBC 6y ago
  > when i go for a hike i bring a trash bag and often come out with it full. David Sedaris did this so much they named a garbage truck after him. https://www.theguardian.com/books/shortcuts/2014/jul/31/david-sedaris-litter-picker-rubbish-waste-vehicle-pig-pen-west-sussex https://www.theguardian.com/books/shortcuts/2014/jul/31/davi...
say_it_as_it_is 6y ago
It's not just the growth of population but growth of a low-class, ignorant population who exploits free resources until depleted and then moves on.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  It's like the movie Idiocracy.
sandworm101 6y ago
>> We need more public space for people to enjoy, hopefully with fewer ATVs and campsite garbage. While I agree that we need more land to be protected, I disagree that we need it for people to enjoy. Part of the problem IMHO is that camping has become too easy, too comfortable. We need to set aside land and keep it wild. That means not installing car camping luxuries, not paving every trail so as to accommodate as many people as may be physically possible.

djsumdog 6y ago

There's a great book called Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey where he talks about the old national parks that were free, and where driving was banned. You had to hike/bike/horse your way in, and people came to spend long periods traveling through the parks. He watched as the park services started building roads through national parks, and more parking lots, and how that changed absolutely everything. It also has a lot of old stories about the area. It's an amazing book.

Gibbon1 6y ago
Friend of mine mentioned one place that used to be protected BLM land. To get there you needed to drive down a 10 mile dirt road. Usually there would be 0 to 2 cars/trucks parked there. It was handed over to the park service to 'protect it' now there is a paved road, a parking lot with pit toilets and two dozen cars and trucks. This sort of thing is why I'm totally opposed to giving the park service more stuff. Park Service should stick to managing Public monuments and the half dozen national parks that serve as sacrifice areas that draw tourists way from everything else.
- wetmore 6y ago
  This is complicated. Certain areas see too much traffic in their primitive state and need infrastructure like a bathroom. In this case causation may be going the other way.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    The problem is the park service actively advertises places which brings in more people. More people requires infrastructure. Which brings in more people. Better is to not advertise and if there are too many people require permits. It may be beneficial to remove infrastructure. For instance blocking of roads that allow access. Because most things that aren't heavily advertised and are more than a mile from a road see very little traffic.

cmrx64 6y ago

when i go for a hike i bring a trash bag and often come out with it full. maybe consider similar and convincing your social contacts to do so instead of deferring to some other authority? the commons are what we make of them, and “it’s someone else’s responsibility” is the heart of the tragedy.

strict9 6y ago
My family does this on state-owned park land near where they live, but it's never enough. A solution of hoping people see the error of their ways doesn't seem realistic to me. As far as deferring to authority is concerned, there is some benefit. Hunters were the worst offenders for leaving garbage behind, but now with the state owning much of the land, hunting is no longer allowed. Now there aren't hunters leaving behind piles of trash and illegally built blinds but there are more people out enjoying nature. Deferring to someone else isn't the solution, but it also isn't a tragedy.
DanBC 6y ago
> when i go for a hike i bring a trash bag and often come out with it full. David Sedaris did this so much they named a garbage truck after him. https://www.theguardian.com/books/shortcuts/2014/jul/31/david-sedaris-litter-picker-rubbish-waste-vehicle-pig-pen-west-sussex https://www.theguardian.com/books/shortcuts/2014/jul/31/davi...

say_it_as_it_is 6y ago

It's not just the growth of population but growth of a low-class, ignorant population who exploits free resources until depleted and then moves on.

djsumdog 6y ago
It's like the movie Idiocracy.

sandworm101 6y ago

>> We need more public space for people to enjoy, hopefully with fewer ATVs and campsite garbage. While I agree that we need more land to be protected, I disagree that we need it for people to enjoy. Part of the problem IMHO is that camping has become too easy, too comfortable. We need to set aside land and keep it wild. That means not installing car camping luxuries, not paving every trail so as to accommodate as many people as may be physically possible.