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Eh. How will they preserve the paintings? Or are they going to destroy it? What's the difference from Islamic State burning art that "wasn't representative of t

Eh. How will they preserve the paintings? Or are they going to destroy it? What's the difference from Islamic State burning art that "wasn't representative of them today"? Should we take down Egyptian pyramids too, since slaves built them and that's not what we are today? Hopefully this dumb ideology won't get out of the USA. I feel sad for the Americans of yesterday, though, I can't imagine such disrespect to their work here in Europe.

jkinudsjknds 6y ago
The difference is that the Islamic State is destroying these things and sending a message that it must be destroyed. The Americans are saying "we don't want this art to represent us anymore". It's improbable that the art will be destroyed, and if it is, it'll be for practical constraints not a public display of aggression. Europe tends not to have equivalent problems. But I'd imagine if you had a series of works in public display that told the story of how the Americans came over and won the war while the pathetic European allies just did nothing you'd probably protest, because that's kind of bullshit. Taking down a celebration of white soldiers doesn't mean you don't respect them. It might just mean your views of the situation have changed in a way that requires a different work. To say you "cannot imagine a disrespect to their work"... well yeah you can. It's the exact situation that the black soldiers were in. It's like complaining about the unfairness of rising food prices while the family down the lane already had food insecurity. Arguing to maintain the status quo, which is inherently unfair, on a basis of unfairness towards the privileged group is the entire point of trying to unpack structural systemic problems. We don't need to claim that a painting of white soldiers is made with racist intentions. It's likely not. But we can take proactive steps to change how we portray ourselves going forward. This is but one of many instances of people having gut reactions to racial relations. People are happy to say they are not racist (and they aren't) and are happy to say they think people of minority groups should be treated with equal respect (and they do think this). But when confronted with the reality that historic structural systems have shifted power, culture, and wealth to one side- they have a gut negative reaction against actually changing the systems to create more equal outcomes. Reducing racial inequality means changing cultural norms, weakening the historic gravy train of white real estate ownership, and transferring political power from white communities to black communities (and others). The hatred of the KKK causes an insignificant amount of harm to the black community relative to regressive housing policies born out of longstanding traditions of keeping property ownership a thing of the whites. Unconscious biases at the office are not as pertinent as the public thinking on cultural heritage.
mcphage 6y ago
> Should we take down Egyptian pyramids too, since slaves built them I'm pretty sure that's not true. > I feel sad for the Americans of yesterday, though, I can't imagine such disrespect to their work here in Europe. The white Americans of yesterday used to get upset when a black person used their water fountain, or got a better seat on a bus, so it's not like they refrained from weaponized outrage.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
  > so it's not like they refrained from weaponized outrage at least you're admitting the stuff now is disingenuous and strategic
  - mcphage 6y ago
    > at least you're admitting the stuff now is disingenuous and strategic Strategic, absolutely. And—in this particular case at least—pretty stupid. But I'm more interested in the aim; it's no longer about keeping minorities down.

jkinudsjknds 6y ago

The difference is that the Islamic State is destroying these things and sending a message that it must be destroyed. The Americans are saying "we don't want this art to represent us anymore". It's improbable that the art will be destroyed, and if it is, it'll be for practical constraints not a public display of aggression. Europe tends not to have equivalent problems. But I'd imagine if you had a series of works in public display that told the story of how the Americans came over and won the war while the pathetic European allies just did nothing you'd probably protest, because that's kind of bullshit. Taking down a celebration of white soldiers doesn't mean you don't respect them. It might just mean your views of the situation have changed in a way that requires a different work. To say you "cannot imagine a disrespect to their work"... well yeah you can. It's the exact situation that the black soldiers were in. It's like complaining about the unfairness of rising food prices while the family down the lane already had food insecurity. Arguing to maintain the status quo, which is inherently unfair, on a basis of unfairness towards the privileged group is the entire point of trying to unpack structural systemic problems. We don't need to claim that a painting of white soldiers is made with racist intentions. It's likely not. But we can take proactive steps to change how we portray ourselves going forward. This is but one of many instances of people having gut reactions to racial relations. People are happy to say they are not racist (and they aren't) and are happy to say they think people of minority groups should be treated with equal respect (and they do think this). But when confronted with the reality that historic structural systems have shifted power, culture, and wealth to one side- they have a gut negative reaction against actually changing the systems to create more equal outcomes. Reducing racial inequality means changing cultural norms, weakening the historic gravy train of white real estate ownership, and transferring political power from white communities to black communities (and others). The hatred of the KKK causes an insignificant amount of harm to the black community relative to regressive housing policies born out of longstanding traditions of keeping property ownership a thing of the whites. Unconscious biases at the office are not as pertinent as the public thinking on cultural heritage.

mcphage 6y ago

> Should we take down Egyptian pyramids too, since slaves built them I'm pretty sure that's not true. > I feel sad for the Americans of yesterday, though, I can't imagine such disrespect to their work here in Europe. The white Americans of yesterday used to get upset when a black person used their water fountain, or got a better seat on a bus, so it's not like they refrained from weaponized outrage.

gnusty_gnurc 6y ago
> so it's not like they refrained from weaponized outrage at least you're admitting the stuff now is disingenuous and strategic
- mcphage 6y ago
  > at least you're admitting the stuff now is disingenuous and strategic Strategic, absolutely. And—in this particular case at least—pretty stupid. But I'm more interested in the aim; it's no longer about keeping minorities down.