6 ms·

I was turned off of Vue when they put a big "Join BLM" banner on the top of their site. In my vue, that is mixing politics and personal opinions into a public

I was turned off of Vue when they put a big "Join BLM" banner on the top of their site. In my vue, that is mixing politics and personal opinions into a public coding project. I believe this to be a non-no. It implies that those that don't share your [unrelated] views are not legitimate. In this example, it implies that those who are pro-minority rights but anti-protests are in some way less committed than their pro-rights and pro-protest counterparts. Which is not correct - there are many, many people like myself who have dedicated their lives to helping minorities, but think it can better be done if we don't turn them into victims. You can disagree, but don't make it part of the code. I encourage all large public projects to please respect the opinions and efforts of all their users and possible contributors, even if their users are not woke, or try to do good in ways other than you would. The banner is gone, so am hoping that other commenters will respond to this as an example, not as a specific. (In other, don't defend BLM, there are other venues for that.) Please, please keep politics for the media to exagerate, and keep large projects politics free. edit - sigh For all those erstwhile readers that are righteously downvoting me into oblivion - that's fine. I respect your right to consider my verse worthy of ire. But a comment to explain why you disagree would be so much better! Angry destruction without reason is already plentiful, but it is neither constructive nor persuasive. It reinforces the feeling that you will happily cancel anyone with another point of view just because you don't care to hear it.

H1Supreme 6y ago
React has a BLM banner as well.
ZephyrBlu 6y ago
Anecdotally, it seemed like every open source project I looked at had some sort of banner showing support for BLM. The Django, React Router and React docs all definitely had BLM stuff.
beefbroccoli 6y ago
It always gets a groan out of me. They come across as self-serving, like big corporations that run commercials to talk about how great they are ('we here at widget company X care about Y'). In comparison, the charity-ware of vim is fine to me. It does what it's supposed to without all the backpatting.
Pelic4n 6y ago
I disagree with you and I will explain my reasons why: BLM is not about politics or personal opinions, it is about human rights, so is the LGBT flag stuff, so is speaking out against the chinese governement for the Uyghurs genocide currently being carried out. You know what has happened to Georges Floyd, Breonna Taylor and many others. People murdered routinely by the police without any consequences. Using whatever platform you have to speak out against it is morally right. Protests happens after decades of police violence against black communities, by being against those you are standing against an human rights issue (Whatever is your reason, even COVID). You need to be aware of that and think if that's a good use or your life. Plenty of people do, usually white nationalists, KKK members and neo-nazis, who are vocally againsts humans rights and equality between white people and people of colors.
- JakeDKo 6y ago
  There have been plenty of white people gunned down or killed by the police; but unfortunately they did not deserve a "White People Matter". So no protests for them. Because, according to black people, they were "white trash". What do you humanists say to that? As far as George Floyd is concerned, he once participated in a robbery and put his gun on a pregnant woman's belly. Enough with this drug addicted criminal.
- sam_goody 6y ago
  Thank you very much for explaining. I also am pro human rights. Very much so. And yet I think that BLM does it all wrong, and all that will come out of their protests are more police, more government, more bigotry against the blacks, and more slums. I suspect that there are a lot of people like myself.
  - Pelic4n 6y ago
    BLM is showing us uncomfortable reality, which is how poor black people are treated in the US. For anyone slightly better off, all this pain, anger and the violence which stems from it is difficult to process and can lead us to cognitive dissonance to avoid these feelings. "they're doing it wrong! BLM is violent thugs and terrorists, if they wanted results they would be 100% peaceful. They're working against these causes!" is that cognitive dissonance. Turns out, human rights activists have been peaceful. For decades. It did nothing. Even filmed in broad daylight, with people begging him to stop and with the whole world watching it on the internet, a police officer can still murder a black man and get away with it. Which they would have without the protests. Now, each time that happens, there will be a wave of righteous anger through the country. Until that doesn't happens anymore I hope. MLK's protests weren't peaceful. There was the same stuff happening, looting, violents elements, confrontations with white nationalists, and they've changed things, tremendously for the better. I hope the same happens with BLM.
helloxyzxyz 6y ago
BLackMail. If you don't add the banner it's because you're a racist. The equation is do you lose more patrons by having or not having the banner (and be accused of being a racist). Easiest, and most profitable, to just to add the banner...
- nullsense 6y ago
  Reminds me of the Silicon Valley episode about Tethics where Richard is forced to sign Gavin's pledge for exactly this reason even though he's in strong disagreement.
wetmore 6y ago
People are not obligated to tell you why they don't like what you say. It's nice when you do get a reason but to liken a downvote to "angry destruction without reason" is a major reach. You are not entitled to their time. I didn't downvote you but I'll tell you what rubbed me the wrong way about your comment. I think people who did downvote you probably felt similar. In short, I think your comment is patronizing. You imply that the people protesting are doing so in part as a result of "media exaggeration" and being "turned into victims". I read this as you saying that things aren't actually that bad, and the people protesting are doing so based on false pretenses. Your comment has the paternalistic air of "I know how to help these people better than they know how to help themselves".
luckycharms810 6y ago
I guess the question is really - Is the site bringing politics into a non-political venue - or are you requesting that they suppress any views that make you uncomfortable on their site ? Would be analogous to going to someones house, eating their food for free and then regulating the dinner conversation.
- sam_goody 6y ago
  That is a good point. I personally think that even when you invite a guest you don't know to lunch, you should steer clear of emotionally charged subjects, but that may be an extreme position. But in the case of a project with over 50 branches, and hundreds of thousands of users, that advertises an active community and wants me to get involved, then it is entirely something else. There I think that great pains should be taken to keep out emotionally charged views, as there are bound to be lots of people that you actually want to be part of your community that will feel out of place. Hence my statement "large open source project".
mikeg8 6y ago
> It implies that those that don't share your [unrelated] views are not legitimate. Does it though? That seems highly sensitive. Also, their support of BLM does not necessarily mean they support violent protest. They could be using their platform to show support of the movement and peaceful protests, which are critical to a functioning democracy. So are you anti all protests, or do you make the distinction and oppose only those that use destructive methods?
- sam_goody 6y ago
  I am anti protests of the type that BLM represents, even if they are not violent. Creds: I moved into a low-income area and have spent the past ten years providing education, money, and support, trying to improve the lives, and championing the cause of those living in such areas. I adopted a kid with a police record longer than your arm, and worked with him getting detoxed. I spend most of my waking hours on this, all volunteer. I grew up in the projects. There was a dude some ten years older than myself - a programmer (back before computers were a thing) - who convinced me that I can do something with my life, but I have to take the onus of responsibility upon myself - even when it is someone else's fault. That's the message I now try to give over - you guys are awesome, and some day you can change this whole here community around. But you gotta take the whole responsibility upon yourselves - especially when it is not your fault. That's a big message, and hard for me to write in a post like this, but it works. I have hundreds of students that have healthy lives, and we have grown to 30 volunteers who help me. When there are riots like these it passes a huge message - it is all "their" fault, and "we" deserve everything because of it, and we don't need to take any responsibility. So, protests have a place. But the way that BLM projects it is, IMO, destructive, even if there are no riots. Edit: I am not dismissing the bad and uncaring attitude projected by the police or government. I am not dismissing the emotion, anger and sometimes guilt of the protestors. There are protests and other actions that can be extremely useful. Perhaps thought can be put into what objectives can be gained, and how to get them, and then think if supporting BLM is really the way to get them. (Also, I know a few people who have joined BLM protests as a way of protesting Trump. IMO, not the best way to do that, either.)
  - mikeg8 6y ago

H1Supreme 6y ago

React has a BLM banner as well.

ZephyrBlu 6y ago

Anecdotally, it seemed like every open source project I looked at had some sort of banner showing support for BLM. The Django, React Router and React docs all definitely had BLM stuff.

beefbroccoli 6y ago

It always gets a groan out of me. They come across as self-serving, like big corporations that run commercials to talk about how great they are ('we here at widget company X care about Y'). In comparison, the charity-ware of vim is fine to me. It does what it's supposed to without all the backpatting.

Pelic4n 6y ago

I disagree with you and I will explain my reasons why: BLM is not about politics or personal opinions, it is about human rights, so is the LGBT flag stuff, so is speaking out against the chinese governement for the Uyghurs genocide currently being carried out. You know what has happened to Georges Floyd, Breonna Taylor and many others. People murdered routinely by the police without any consequences. Using whatever platform you have to speak out against it is morally right. Protests happens after decades of police violence against black communities, by being against those you are standing against an human rights issue (Whatever is your reason, even COVID). You need to be aware of that and think if that's a good use or your life. Plenty of people do, usually white nationalists, KKK members and neo-nazis, who are vocally againsts humans rights and equality between white people and people of colors.

JakeDKo 6y ago
There have been plenty of white people gunned down or killed by the police; but unfortunately they did not deserve a "White People Matter". So no protests for them. Because, according to black people, they were "white trash". What do you humanists say to that? As far as George Floyd is concerned, he once participated in a robbery and put his gun on a pregnant woman's belly. Enough with this drug addicted criminal.
sam_goody 6y ago
Thank you very much for explaining. I also am pro human rights. Very much so. And yet I think that BLM does it all wrong, and all that will come out of their protests are more police, more government, more bigotry against the blacks, and more slums. I suspect that there are a lot of people like myself.
- Pelic4n 6y ago
  BLM is showing us uncomfortable reality, which is how poor black people are treated in the US. For anyone slightly better off, all this pain, anger and the violence which stems from it is difficult to process and can lead us to cognitive dissonance to avoid these feelings. "they're doing it wrong! BLM is violent thugs and terrorists, if they wanted results they would be 100% peaceful. They're working against these causes!" is that cognitive dissonance. Turns out, human rights activists have been peaceful. For decades. It did nothing. Even filmed in broad daylight, with people begging him to stop and with the whole world watching it on the internet, a police officer can still murder a black man and get away with it. Which they would have without the protests. Now, each time that happens, there will be a wave of righteous anger through the country. Until that doesn't happens anymore I hope. MLK's protests weren't peaceful. There was the same stuff happening, looting, violents elements, confrontations with white nationalists, and they've changed things, tremendously for the better. I hope the same happens with BLM.

helloxyzxyz 6y ago

BLackMail. If you don't add the banner it's because you're a racist. The equation is do you lose more patrons by having or not having the banner (and be accused of being a racist). Easiest, and most profitable, to just to add the banner...

nullsense 6y ago
Reminds me of the Silicon Valley episode about Tethics where Richard is forced to sign Gavin's pledge for exactly this reason even though he's in strong disagreement.

wetmore 6y ago

People are not obligated to tell you why they don't like what you say. It's nice when you do get a reason but to liken a downvote to "angry destruction without reason" is a major reach. You are not entitled to their time. I didn't downvote you but I'll tell you what rubbed me the wrong way about your comment. I think people who did downvote you probably felt similar. In short, I think your comment is patronizing. You imply that the people protesting are doing so in part as a result of "media exaggeration" and being "turned into victims". I read this as you saying that things aren't actually that bad, and the people protesting are doing so based on false pretenses. Your comment has the paternalistic air of "I know how to help these people better than they know how to help themselves".

luckycharms810 6y ago

I guess the question is really - Is the site bringing politics into a non-political venue - or are you requesting that they suppress any views that make you uncomfortable on their site ? Would be analogous to going to someones house, eating their food for free and then regulating the dinner conversation.

sam_goody 6y ago
That is a good point. I personally think that even when you invite a guest you don't know to lunch, you should steer clear of emotionally charged subjects, but that may be an extreme position. But in the case of a project with over 50 branches, and hundreds of thousands of users, that advertises an active community and wants me to get involved, then it is entirely something else. There I think that great pains should be taken to keep out emotionally charged views, as there are bound to be lots of people that you actually want to be part of your community that will feel out of place. Hence my statement "large open source project".

mikeg8 6y ago

> It implies that those that don't share your [unrelated] views are not legitimate. Does it though? That seems highly sensitive. Also, their support of BLM does not necessarily mean they support violent protest. They could be using their platform to show support of the movement and peaceful protests, which are critical to a functioning democracy. So are you anti all protests, or do you make the distinction and oppose only those that use destructive methods?

sam_goody 6y ago
I am anti protests of the type that BLM represents, even if they are not violent. Creds: I moved into a low-income area and have spent the past ten years providing education, money, and support, trying to improve the lives, and championing the cause of those living in such areas. I adopted a kid with a police record longer than your arm, and worked with him getting detoxed. I spend most of my waking hours on this, all volunteer. I grew up in the projects. There was a dude some ten years older than myself - a programmer (back before computers were a thing) - who convinced me that I can do something with my life, but I have to take the onus of responsibility upon myself - even when it is someone else's fault. That's the message I now try to give over - you guys are awesome, and some day you can change this whole here community around. But you gotta take the whole responsibility upon yourselves - especially when it is not your fault. That's a big message, and hard for me to write in a post like this, but it works. I have hundreds of students that have healthy lives, and we have grown to 30 volunteers who help me. When there are riots like these it passes a huge message - it is all "their" fault, and "we" deserve everything because of it, and we don't need to take any responsibility. So, protests have a place. But the way that BLM projects it is, IMO, destructive, even if there are no riots. Edit: I am not dismissing the bad and uncaring attitude projected by the police or government. I am not dismissing the emotion, anger and sometimes guilt of the protestors. There are protests and other actions that can be extremely useful. Perhaps thought can be put into what objectives can be gained, and how to get them, and then think if supporting BLM is really the way to get them. (Also, I know a few people who have joined BLM protests as a way of protesting Trump. IMO, not the best way to do that, either.)
- mikeg8 6y ago