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> My guess - 50%+ of even CAR buyers want to have a connection to their brand loyal assistant. For me it's that I don't want to be beholden to the car manufact

> My guess - 50%+ of even CAR buyers want to have a connection to their brand loyal assistant. For me it's that I don't want to be beholden to the car manufacturers schedule of updates or choice of features. The only thing that really dated on my previous car and tempted me to look at buying a new one was things like lack of bluetooth audio and no big screen for maps. As an example, it tends to cost extra (at least it did historically) for maps in cars, I've also heard of having to pay annual fees for updates to those maps and even when the maps are "upto date", their information is still not as good as say Google Maps on your phone. So you land up with these expensive luxury cars, with huge infotainment screens, and then people still using a smart phone with its little screen on the side with its maps app simply because it's substantially more usable than what the car provides. Additionally, each car manafacturer has their own version of media players and capabilities all with varying amount of features. They all insist on figuratively re-inventing the wheel, and landing up with one which is still way worse than my rapidly evolving phone and its apps. Car infotainment systems these days should be little more than a largely dumb interface to my smart phone so that for the 10-20 years I own the car, I get regular updates on its utility as my smart phone and its apps improve.

patrickk 6y ago
> Car infotainment systems these days should be little more than a largely dumb interface to my smart phone so that for the 10-20 years I own the car, I get regular updates on its utility as my smart phone and its apps improve. That doesn't align with car makers incentives and business plans. Right now, all the talk is about mobility services (which don't make a profit for anyone currently) and chasing Tesla. They need something to replace spare parts and servicing, which is where all the profit is. With COVID, the EU commission fines on CO2, and the beginnings of EVs taking over (=spare parts and servicing will be reduced to almost nothing), they need a future profit generator. Except that doesn't line up with what consumers want.
- alistairSH 6y ago
  That doesn't align with car makers incentives If does if lack of CapPlay/Android Auto prevents sales. I won't buy a car that doesn't have them. I don't want to install more apps just for my car. I don't want to learn new systems when the native integration works just fine. I certainly don't want to pay for updated navigation when I get it "free" from Apple or Google. For a while, that meant no Toyota/Lexus (it appears they've since caved and have native phone integration).
  - steve_adams_86 6y ago
    This is the worst thing about my 2017 Highlander. No idea why Toyota thought that infotainment system could compete - it’s pretty terrible. I’ve seen videos of people installing CarPlay compatible head units while maintaining all of the original car features, but it kind of spooks me. I’ll have to build up the courage to make the switch.
  - RandoHolmes 6y ago
    If you're going to have the car for 10+ years, why in the world would it be a problem to learn the system in it?
    - ska 6y ago
      a) many people dont' keep cars that long b) the system is probably poorly designed and implemented
      - RandoHolmes 6y ago
        You have no argument here. the average loan for a new vehicle is 3-5 years. Is it your belief that you're likely to default on that loan, therefore why would you learn the system in your vehicle? The average ownership length for a car is roughly 6 years. Taking the time to learn a system that you'll have for anywhere from 3-6 years is completely reasonable. This is the very definition of #firstworldproblems.
        6y ago
- jonathanlydall 6y ago
  Yep, I'm pretty sure that's the reason, they're having to be dragged kicking and screaming to give consumers what they're asking for. Every time I took my car in for a service and would look at cars on the showroom floor, I would ask about Apple CarPlay options and tell the sales person how I have no inclination to buy a new car until the current one becomes problematic or the new ones have the option of me not having to rely on their not great UI for the lifetime of the car.
janlaureys 6y ago
My parents recently bought a Peugeot 2008 with a very crappy infotainment system but it doesn't matter really because it supports Apple Carplay so now it has onboard Spotify, Waze and Google Maps.
Causality1 6y ago
I agree completely. All I need are manual stereo controls and a nice spot in the middle of the dash to mount my phone without blocking air vents or windshield.
criddell 6y ago
Porsche did something I thought was pretty smart. They introduced a line of radios with Car-Play functionality for their cars going back to the 1960s. https://www.porsche.com/international/accessoriesandservice/classic/genuineparts/producthighlights/pccm/ https://www.porsche.com/international/accessoriesandservice/...
RandoHolmes 6y ago
> and no big screen for maps One of the reasons I haven't bought a new car is because I pretty actively don't want a touch screen in my car. It just screams unsafe to me, and all the research I've seen coming out recently agrees with me. I don't want to have to stare at my console just to change the radio channel, to turn up the A/C, etc. It's insane to me that people think this is a pro instead of a negative.
- the_other 6y ago
  It’s a pro the same way web apps are a pro: cost to manufacture & deliver.
- rstupek 6y ago
  You don't have to stare at the screen in a Tesla to change the radio or turn up the A/C, those controls are on the steering wheel.
  - RandoHolmes 6y ago
    Here's what I actually said, with added emphasis. > I don't want to have to stare at my console just to change the radio channel, to turn up the A/C, ETC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera > et cetera is a Latin expression that is used in English to mean "and other similar things", or "and so forth". I'm sure this will come across as harsh as it's meant to be, but you went after a strawman so fair is fair. My actual point is that if you're doing ANYTHING while driving that involves staring at a touch screen to ensure you touch the correct part of it, often multiple times as you hunt through menu's, then it's less safe than not having the touch screen. This point is not invalidated because you can change the volume via your steering wheel.
    - LordDragonfang 6y ago
      The fact that you're using the actual radio at all puts you in the minority of new car buyers. Pretty much everyone I know under 30 just plays music or podcasts off their phone (which is an even tinier touchscreen). I don't see that trend reversing anytime soon.

patrickk 6y ago

> Car infotainment systems these days should be little more than a largely dumb interface to my smart phone so that for the 10-20 years I own the car, I get regular updates on its utility as my smart phone and its apps improve. That doesn't align with car makers incentives and business plans. Right now, all the talk is about mobility services (which don't make a profit for anyone currently) and chasing Tesla. They need something to replace spare parts and servicing, which is where all the profit is. With COVID, the EU commission fines on CO2, and the beginnings of EVs taking over (=spare parts and servicing will be reduced to almost nothing), they need a future profit generator. Except that doesn't line up with what consumers want.

alistairSH 6y ago
That doesn't align with car makers incentives If does if lack of CapPlay/Android Auto prevents sales. I won't buy a car that doesn't have them. I don't want to install more apps just for my car. I don't want to learn new systems when the native integration works just fine. I certainly don't want to pay for updated navigation when I get it "free" from Apple or Google. For a while, that meant no Toyota/Lexus (it appears they've since caved and have native phone integration).
- steve_adams_86 6y ago
  This is the worst thing about my 2017 Highlander. No idea why Toyota thought that infotainment system could compete - it’s pretty terrible. I’ve seen videos of people installing CarPlay compatible head units while maintaining all of the original car features, but it kind of spooks me. I’ll have to build up the courage to make the switch.
- RandoHolmes 6y ago
  If you're going to have the car for 10+ years, why in the world would it be a problem to learn the system in it?
  - ska 6y ago
    a) many people dont' keep cars that long b) the system is probably poorly designed and implemented
    - RandoHolmes 6y ago
      You have no argument here. the average loan for a new vehicle is 3-5 years. Is it your belief that you're likely to default on that loan, therefore why would you learn the system in your vehicle? The average ownership length for a car is roughly 6 years. Taking the time to learn a system that you'll have for anywhere from 3-6 years is completely reasonable. This is the very definition of #firstworldproblems.
      - 6y ago
jonathanlydall 6y ago
Yep, I'm pretty sure that's the reason, they're having to be dragged kicking and screaming to give consumers what they're asking for. Every time I took my car in for a service and would look at cars on the showroom floor, I would ask about Apple CarPlay options and tell the sales person how I have no inclination to buy a new car until the current one becomes problematic or the new ones have the option of me not having to rely on their not great UI for the lifetime of the car.

janlaureys 6y ago

My parents recently bought a Peugeot 2008 with a very crappy infotainment system but it doesn't matter really because it supports Apple Carplay so now it has onboard Spotify, Waze and Google Maps.

Causality1 6y ago

I agree completely. All I need are manual stereo controls and a nice spot in the middle of the dash to mount my phone without blocking air vents or windshield.

criddell 6y ago

Porsche did something I thought was pretty smart. They introduced a line of radios with Car-Play functionality for their cars going back to the 1960s. https://www.porsche.com/international/accessoriesandservice/classic/genuineparts/producthighlights/pccm/ https://www.porsche.com/international/accessoriesandservice/...

RandoHolmes 6y ago

> and no big screen for maps One of the reasons I haven't bought a new car is because I pretty actively don't want a touch screen in my car. It just screams unsafe to me, and all the research I've seen coming out recently agrees with me. I don't want to have to stare at my console just to change the radio channel, to turn up the A/C, etc. It's insane to me that people think this is a pro instead of a negative.

the_other 6y ago
It’s a pro the same way web apps are a pro: cost to manufacture & deliver.
rstupek 6y ago
You don't have to stare at the screen in a Tesla to change the radio or turn up the A/C, those controls are on the steering wheel.
- RandoHolmes 6y ago
  Here's what I actually said, with added emphasis. > I don't want to have to stare at my console just to change the radio channel, to turn up the A/C, ETC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera > et cetera is a Latin expression that is used in English to mean "and other similar things", or "and so forth". I'm sure this will come across as harsh as it's meant to be, but you went after a strawman so fair is fair. My actual point is that if you're doing ANYTHING while driving that involves staring at a touch screen to ensure you touch the correct part of it, often multiple times as you hunt through menu's, then it's less safe than not having the touch screen. This point is not invalidated because you can change the volume via your steering wheel.
  - LordDragonfang 6y ago
    The fact that you're using the actual radio at all puts you in the minority of new car buyers. Pretty much everyone I know under 30 just plays music or podcasts off their phone (which is an even tinier touchscreen). I don't see that trend reversing anytime soon.