Imho they have lost to Scala before they even started. And from my experience with Hibernate, Gavin King used to be this arrogant "you are doing it wrong" type

Imho they have lost to Scala before they even started. And from my experience with Hibernate, Gavin King used to be this arrogant "you are doing it wrong" type who never really listened to anybody (or at least he worked hard to maintain that impression).