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The App Store generates nearly 10 times as much revenues for developers per device sold as Google Play. How is building a safer walled garden that attracts the

The App Store generates nearly 10 times as much revenues for developers per device sold as Google Play. How is building a safer walled garden that attracts the highest spending customers and makes them extremely comfortable with buying apps and subscriptions not a massive amount of utility?

beaner 6y ago
Because if the app was permitted to be installed outside of the app store, it would make more money, meaning the app store offers negative utility to some developers. Fortnite is a huge brand outside of iOS. It iOS did not make the success of Fortnite. Epic doesn't need the app store's advertising to succeed, and being forced to go through this bottleneck only hampers them.
- danbolt 6y ago
  > iOS did not make the success of Fortnite Does iOS make the success of any app?
- yazaddaruvala 6y ago
  It’s not about advertising. It’s about trust building. Apple has earned trust with me as a user. When I download an app from Apple’s stores it extends its trust to those apps. I feel more comfortable spending money on iOS because of that trust. Take away the trust, and I promise there is significantly less money to be made.
  - beaner 6y ago
    If that were true, Epic would not want to offer its app outside of the app store. But it does, because it's more profitable.
    - valuearb 6y ago
      Tim Sweeney may believe that, but he’s made a lot of dumb decisions lately.
    - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
      No data for this exists. This is all my opinion and most importantly feelings about spending money though the AppStore and through any other channel. I will say, for me no other company has built the good will that Apple has. I really doubt that Epic understands the “trust” I speak about. Both because of the general sentiment I see online and as a Fortnite player.
      - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
        Just thinking about this some more... Have any of you actually played Fortnite? Do any of you know how many bugs exist in that game? I’m not even talking about “wall hacks”, rendering issues, difficult collision detection stuff or the many in game broken mechanics. I’m talking about the many, many out-of-game user interface bugs. Logging in fails 1/4 the time (need to reboot the app). Matchmaking fails 1/10 the time (just stuck in an infinite loop). Matchmaking for groups fails 1/10 the time (at least one person in the party will not be in the same game!!! How does a software company fuck up atomic transactions for the full party?) lol Epic is not a company I want handling financial transactions. I’m very happy to buy Vbucks from Apple/Google/Sony and then “safely” use Vbucks in the Fortnite store.
      - beaner 6y ago
        The data for this does exist, it is the fact that Epic does want to offer its game outside the app store, as evidenced by their statements and also by having attempted it for Android.
        yazaddaruvala 6y ago
        This answer feels disingenuous. I feel I’ve made my point fairly clearly. The type of trust building Apple does is a “value add” that a company like Epic doesn’t understand yet. Epic choosing to make this decision isn’t data about Apple’s ability and mindset to earn trust. Epic choosing to make this decision seems to be a short term play at rent seeking before Fortnite stops being popular. Also please read my other comments in this thread for anecdata about my experience/feelings as a customer of both Apple and Epic.
- Razengan 6y ago
  > Because if the app was permitted to be installed outside of the app store, it would make more money, meaning the app store offers negative utility to some developers. Fortnite is a huge brand outside of iOS. It iOS did not make the success of Fortnite. Epic doesn't need the app store's advertising to succeed, and being forced to go through this bottleneck only hampers them. It’s the same for Epic on PlayStation, Switch and Xbox.
donor20 6y ago
Exactly this. I pretty happily try out subscription apps on iOS (which I rarely to never do online). Why? It's darn easy to cancel. I get a reminder in advance even. This contrasts in my experience with nearly EVERY other auto-billing approach out there. The time I sometimes spend calling people to cancel stuff (that I could sign up for online) is ridiculous. Another nice touch that builds trust. I once deleted an app and iOS reminded me to cancel the subscription if I wasn't going to reinstall! I mean, every other store will keep the auto-bill going forever.
- beaner 6y ago
  Apple once let somebody hack my account and purchase the same $20 app 15 times. When I complained, they ignored me. When I charged back the purchases, they canceled my Apple account. Purchasing the same app more than once on the same device shouldn't even be possible. This was back in 2011, but... definitely didn't build trust. But you guys aren't arguing the actual point anyway. The question is whether the forced app store is always a plus for developers, not users. The answer is certainly no. And the answer is also no for users who can manage their own trust, and could happily live with direct downloads outside of the app store. They pay higher prices, and are forced to effectively subsidize everyone else.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    I’m sorry for your loss. But Apple believes the opposite of you, has direct contact with nearly a billion customers, and spends massively on safety/security which they wouldn’t do if it wasn’t important to customers.
    - beaner 6y ago
      I have nothing wrong with that. But again, besides the point that this path is always, necessarily beneficial to all users and all developers. It isn't.
      - valuearb 6y ago

beaner 6y ago

Because if the app was permitted to be installed outside of the app store, it would make more money, meaning the app store offers negative utility to some developers. Fortnite is a huge brand outside of iOS. It iOS did not make the success of Fortnite. Epic doesn't need the app store's advertising to succeed, and being forced to go through this bottleneck only hampers them.

danbolt 6y ago
> iOS did not make the success of Fortnite Does iOS make the success of any app?
yazaddaruvala 6y ago
It’s not about advertising. It’s about trust building. Apple has earned trust with me as a user. When I download an app from Apple’s stores it extends its trust to those apps. I feel more comfortable spending money on iOS because of that trust. Take away the trust, and I promise there is significantly less money to be made.
- beaner 6y ago
  If that were true, Epic would not want to offer its app outside of the app store. But it does, because it's more profitable.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Tim Sweeney may believe that, but he’s made a lot of dumb decisions lately.
  - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
    No data for this exists. This is all my opinion and most importantly feelings about spending money though the AppStore and through any other channel. I will say, for me no other company has built the good will that Apple has. I really doubt that Epic understands the “trust” I speak about. Both because of the general sentiment I see online and as a Fortnite player.
    - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
      Just thinking about this some more... Have any of you actually played Fortnite? Do any of you know how many bugs exist in that game? I’m not even talking about “wall hacks”, rendering issues, difficult collision detection stuff or the many in game broken mechanics. I’m talking about the many, many out-of-game user interface bugs. Logging in fails 1/4 the time (need to reboot the app). Matchmaking fails 1/10 the time (just stuck in an infinite loop). Matchmaking for groups fails 1/10 the time (at least one person in the party will not be in the same game!!! How does a software company fuck up atomic transactions for the full party?) lol Epic is not a company I want handling financial transactions. I’m very happy to buy Vbucks from Apple/Google/Sony and then “safely” use Vbucks in the Fortnite store.
    - beaner 6y ago
      The data for this does exist, it is the fact that Epic does want to offer its game outside the app store, as evidenced by their statements and also by having attempted it for Android.
      - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
        This answer feels disingenuous. I feel I’ve made my point fairly clearly. The type of trust building Apple does is a “value add” that a company like Epic doesn’t understand yet. Epic choosing to make this decision isn’t data about Apple’s ability and mindset to earn trust. Epic choosing to make this decision seems to be a short term play at rent seeking before Fortnite stops being popular. Also please read my other comments in this thread for anecdata about my experience/feelings as a customer of both Apple and Epic.
Razengan 6y ago
> Because if the app was permitted to be installed outside of the app store, it would make more money, meaning the app store offers negative utility to some developers. Fortnite is a huge brand outside of iOS. It iOS did not make the success of Fortnite. Epic doesn't need the app store's advertising to succeed, and being forced to go through this bottleneck only hampers them. It’s the same for Epic on PlayStation, Switch and Xbox.

donor20 6y ago

Exactly this. I pretty happily try out subscription apps on iOS (which I rarely to never do online). Why? It's darn easy to cancel. I get a reminder in advance even. This contrasts in my experience with nearly EVERY other auto-billing approach out there. The time I sometimes spend calling people to cancel stuff (that I could sign up for online) is ridiculous. Another nice touch that builds trust. I once deleted an app and iOS reminded me to cancel the subscription if I wasn't going to reinstall! I mean, every other store will keep the auto-bill going forever.

beaner 6y ago
Apple once let somebody hack my account and purchase the same $20 app 15 times. When I complained, they ignored me. When I charged back the purchases, they canceled my Apple account. Purchasing the same app more than once on the same device shouldn't even be possible. This was back in 2011, but... definitely didn't build trust. But you guys aren't arguing the actual point anyway. The question is whether the forced app store is always a plus for developers, not users. The answer is certainly no. And the answer is also no for users who can manage their own trust, and could happily live with direct downloads outside of the app store. They pay higher prices, and are forced to effectively subsidize everyone else.
- valuearb 6y ago
  I’m sorry for your loss. But Apple believes the opposite of you, has direct contact with nearly a billion customers, and spends massively on safety/security which they wouldn’t do if it wasn’t important to customers.
  - beaner 6y ago
    I have nothing wrong with that. But again, besides the point that this path is always, necessarily beneficial to all users and all developers. It isn't.
    - valuearb 6y ago