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> This is greatly misinformed. Schools in the US are underfunded K-12 in the USA is more funded than almost every country on this planet. What are you talking

> This is greatly misinformed. Schools in the US are underfunded K-12 in the USA is more funded than almost every country on this planet. What are you talking about? https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp

objectivetruth 6y ago
On average, you are technically correct. But the US also has the greatest disparity in funding, which isn't visible on your link but is absolute basic conventional wisdom for any discussion of US education. Fifteen of the fifty states had per-pupil funding less than the OECD average. Our median-funded state is around Canada, around 13th in the world. If Utah were a country, it would rank in the 30s, somewhere around the Slovak Republic. https://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html https://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-educ...
- pas 6y ago
  [why was objectivetruth's comment downvoted to 'dead'?] Also should/are those figures adjustment for cost of living for the particular state?
quadrifoliate 6y ago
> K-12 in the USA is more funded than almost every country on this planet. What are you talking about? https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp As I have said elsewhere in this thread, statistics viewed in isolation are not useful, and are often used for shock value rather than to provide an actual insight. That article of yours refers to the OECD. The US has the highest population in the OECD countries (325 million), almost 3 times the next highest country (Mexico at 129 million). A greater and likely more diverse population with no social safety net means more challenges. Also, are you sure that the USA and say, Japan have exactly equivalent facilities for all students, including special needs students? Also, there's the issue of adapting to different cultures and languages, both of which American schools are far more accepting about. Japanese schools have gotten in hot water for forcing students to dye their hair black to maintain uniformity [1]. So yeah, making apples-to-apples comparisons between the US education system and other countries is hard at best, and meaningless at worst. The US has the challenges of being the largest population in the OECD, as well as being the most diverse culturally, the most liberal in terms of social norms, and not having a meaningful social safety net, particularly for healthcare. This is a unique set of challenges that requires an equivalent amount of funding to tackle. ------------- [1] https://japantoday.com/category/national/tokyo-public-schools-will-stop-forcing-students-to-dye-their-hair-black-official-promises https://japantoday.com/category/national/tokyo-public-school...
- donw 6y ago
  No. We spend more per student than nearly every one of our economic peers and get drastically worse results. Results have gotten worse over time, even though we have increased funding. This is a portrait of total failure, and we need to stop funding it. You can't "fix the system". The system is insanely profitable. It makes a lot of money for lobbyists, private interests, unions, administrators... it's great for everybody but parents and students. Both of my parents were educators. Mom served on the school board, with great distinction, for over a decade. I got to see, first-hand, just how bad things were. How much damage lobbying, insane political programs, and public-sector unions have done to education. As a future parent, I will never subject my children to the horrors of American public education in its current incarnation. That choice should be open to every American parent, not just those wealthy enough to send their kids to a private school.
  - watwut 6y ago
    > drastically worse results Every single time I double check this, it turns out that American education system, while not perfect, is not that bad either. American education system tend to have big differences - schools that have tons of money and schools that struggle for supplies or are unable to fix buildings. Schools that are great, schools that are very bad. Schools that are difficult and schools that are easy. But overall, the results are not some kind of catastrophe. It is far from that. In fact, specifically on public/private divide there are plenty of good public schools with good results. The places middle class families fight to live at are such because everyone wants to go to local public school. This does makes local house prices higher and makes that school available to rich only. But it is still public school and not a private one.
    - donw 6y ago
      The biggest issue is the lock-in. Most people can't move to get access to good schools. It's like "you live in a McDonalds area, so tough luck, that's what your family gets to eat until you are rich enough to move somewhere better." Nobody would find that acceptable. Especially when the McDonalds is priced as if it had a Michelin Star.
pas 6y ago
That doesn't mean it's not underfunded for what it would need to achieve what people expect of it. Should these be adjusted for purchasing power parity? Also does the US education spending number (6.5% of GDP) contains spending on sports and research?
Steltek 6y ago
That is not a correct summary. The first part of this study includes private schools. The second part includes universities. Removing those factoers, USA K-12 is either average or below.

objectivetruth 6y ago

On average, you are technically correct. But the US also has the greatest disparity in funding, which isn't visible on your link but is absolute basic conventional wisdom for any discussion of US education. Fifteen of the fifty states had per-pupil funding less than the OECD average. Our median-funded state is around Canada, around 13th in the world. If Utah were a country, it would rank in the 30s, somewhere around the Slovak Republic. https://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html https://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-educ...

pas 6y ago
[why was objectivetruth's comment downvoted to 'dead'?] Also should/are those figures adjustment for cost of living for the particular state?

quadrifoliate 6y ago

> K-12 in the USA is more funded than almost every country on this planet. What are you talking about? https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp As I have said elsewhere in this thread, statistics viewed in isolation are not useful, and are often used for shock value rather than to provide an actual insight. That article of yours refers to the OECD. The US has the highest population in the OECD countries (325 million), almost 3 times the next highest country (Mexico at 129 million). A greater and likely more diverse population with no social safety net means more challenges. Also, are you sure that the USA and say, Japan have exactly equivalent facilities for all students, including special needs students? Also, there's the issue of adapting to different cultures and languages, both of which American schools are far more accepting about. Japanese schools have gotten in hot water for forcing students to dye their hair black to maintain uniformity [1]. So yeah, making apples-to-apples comparisons between the US education system and other countries is hard at best, and meaningless at worst. The US has the challenges of being the largest population in the OECD, as well as being the most diverse culturally, the most liberal in terms of social norms, and not having a meaningful social safety net, particularly for healthcare. This is a unique set of challenges that requires an equivalent amount of funding to tackle. ------------- [1] https://japantoday.com/category/national/tokyo-public-schools-will-stop-forcing-students-to-dye-their-hair-black-official-promises https://japantoday.com/category/national/tokyo-public-school...

donw 6y ago
No. We spend more per student than nearly every one of our economic peers and get drastically worse results. Results have gotten worse over time, even though we have increased funding. This is a portrait of total failure, and we need to stop funding it. You can't "fix the system". The system is insanely profitable. It makes a lot of money for lobbyists, private interests, unions, administrators... it's great for everybody but parents and students. Both of my parents were educators. Mom served on the school board, with great distinction, for over a decade. I got to see, first-hand, just how bad things were. How much damage lobbying, insane political programs, and public-sector unions have done to education. As a future parent, I will never subject my children to the horrors of American public education in its current incarnation. That choice should be open to every American parent, not just those wealthy enough to send their kids to a private school.
- watwut 6y ago
  > drastically worse results Every single time I double check this, it turns out that American education system, while not perfect, is not that bad either. American education system tend to have big differences - schools that have tons of money and schools that struggle for supplies or are unable to fix buildings. Schools that are great, schools that are very bad. Schools that are difficult and schools that are easy. But overall, the results are not some kind of catastrophe. It is far from that. In fact, specifically on public/private divide there are plenty of good public schools with good results. The places middle class families fight to live at are such because everyone wants to go to local public school. This does makes local house prices higher and makes that school available to rich only. But it is still public school and not a private one.
  - donw 6y ago
    The biggest issue is the lock-in. Most people can't move to get access to good schools. It's like "you live in a McDonalds area, so tough luck, that's what your family gets to eat until you are rich enough to move somewhere better." Nobody would find that acceptable. Especially when the McDonalds is priced as if it had a Michelin Star.

pas 6y ago

That doesn't mean it's not underfunded for what it would need to achieve what people expect of it. Should these be adjusted for purchasing power parity? Also does the US education spending number (6.5% of GDP) contains spending on sports and research?

Steltek 6y ago

That is not a correct summary. The first part of this study includes private schools. The second part includes universities. Removing those factoers, USA K-12 is either average or below.