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At least this US administration is standing up and doing something about it. Do you see the Germany chancellor sanctioning for Xinjiang concentration labor cam

At least this US administration is standing up and doing something about it. Do you see the Germany chancellor sanctioning for Xinjiang concentration labor camps? UK prime minister? French president? Japanese prime minister? Another reason this current administration's hands are tied because it's an election year. And wall street has already raised more money for democrats this past few months than republicans, because of the anti-China stance.

addicted 6y ago
This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China by dropping TPP. Everything they’ve done since then is a fraction of the massive gift they gave the Chinese. Heck, even the Chinese know what a joke this administration is which is why they basically captured Hong Kong, are trying to destroy Vietnam, extracting as much from Australia and India as they can in the past year while the going is good with the administration. Also, comparing to Germany, a country with a population less than 20% of the US’s which has basically no standing army by design, and hosts massive American bases within it is a complete non sequitur. Why don’t you compare to India, for example, which within weeks of a small border skirmish pretty much eliminated the entirety of Chinese digital companies from the country. Setting aside the wisdom of that decision, if you’re just comparing the actions taken by administrations, India has done far more in far less time that has been far more effective than throwing random tantrums after Xi refused to bribe your President enough.
- animationwill 6y ago
  > This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China by dropping TPP All major candidates of the 2016 election intended to end TPP, so it was dead either way. Only Obama sought to pursue it. To act like it wasn't dead is misinformation
  - ciarannolan 6y ago
    This is very disingenuous. I went back and read Clinton's position, which was that the concept of the US pivoting to the Pacific Rim vis a vis trade was critical but that TPP lacked some additional measures she wanted (ex. stronger measures against currency manipulation). I don't think Trump ever articulated a cogent policy position on TPP at all. He did have plenty of his usual free association ranting, though, like: > "And the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership and fast track are a bad, bad deal for American businesses, for workers, for taxpayers. It’s a huge set of handouts for a few insiders that don’t even care about our great, great America."
    - animationwill 6y ago
      My statement was not disingenuous. She opposed it after they finalized the text, so it doesn't matter what she wished it had before it was finalized. It also matters when you're researching that you look at the date, because she was pro-TPP under Obama but anti-TPP as a candidate > Then, last fall, once the 12 participating nations announced they had finalized the text after years of negotiations, Clinton said she opposes it -- citing its lack of a crackdown on currency manipulation and provisions to extend pharmaceutical drug companies' patent protections in poorer countries. And in here words during a debate: > "I did say, when I was secretary of state, three years ago, that I hoped it would be the gold standard," Clinton said at an October debate with Sanders. "It was just finally negotiated last week, and in looking at it, it didn't meet my standards. My standards for more new, good jobs for Americans, for raising wages for Americans. And I want to make sure that I can look into the eyes of any middle-class American and say, 'This will help raise your wages.' And I concluded I could not." Source: https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/tpp-what-you-need-to-know/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/tpp-what-you-need-to...
- jonathannat 6y ago
  > This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China Companies are stepping over each other to move factories out of China. Just check chinalawblog. Any sane COO is de-risking right now. And what about Pompeo's speech? tariffs? banning wechat? supporting Taiwan? There's an endless list of this administration actions trying to curtail China. > dropping TPP. TPP was still an IF still when 2017 rolled around. > Chinese know what a joke this administration is which is why they basically captured Hong Kong, are trying to destroy Vietnam, extracting as much from Australia and India China is making stupid mistakes after mistakes. It managed to piss off almost every surrounding neighbors: South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, India, Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam, etc. It is basically at war with India right now. And US, Canada, UK, France, and some EU countries are in conflict with China as well. Just recently, even Germany, one of its last ally in Europe has condemned China publically for the czech republic situation China is so knee deep in trouble, with internal top leadership conflict, coronavirus, job losses, suffering trade, flooding, food shortage, that it has no choice but to establish internal "order" with inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Tibet. But it is messing up there too. > Also, comparing to Germany, a country with a population less than 20% of the US That's just dishonest hand waving. Everyone knows Germany leads the EU. > Why don’t you compare to India China literally killed Indian soldiers - an act of war. There's no comparison here. And again, this is election year. This US administration cannot piss off every US companies by an absolute economic sanction on China.
  - sgillen 6y ago
    Companies are moving their manufacturing out of China, they were before covid and it’s accelerating now. However companies are definitely going to want to sell the the gigantic and growing Chinese market, if they can. This is especially true the longer covid keeps western economies shit down.
    - jonathannat 6y ago
      > companies are definitely going to want to sell the the gigantic and growing Chinese market Tons of companies have had that same dream in the last 40 years, before China gets old in 2050, before China became nationalist in 2018. Companies like KFC, Amazon, Facebook, Google, Samsung, Nintendo, Home Depot, Mattel, Ebay.
- xref 6y ago
  The TPP was also a deeeeeee-saster, it amounted to a mega-corp giveaway and one of the most egregious things to the HN crowd at the time was imposing America’s draconian copyright laws on all signatory countries. Frankly I was surprised Obama wanted it as part of his legacy.
- jb775 6y ago
  > This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China by dropping TPP Do you really think 5,600 pages of fresh red tape would have been beneficial long term for the US? The TPP was essentially locking the US into an agreement where a bunch of smaller countries could mooch off of the US economy of scale.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    The other countries in the negotiations have a similar population to the US (hell, just Japan, Mexico and Vietnam combined do). Having that many people prefer trade with the US, with a legal framework written by the US (instead of China) probably wouldn't have hurt the US. The treaty would have tended to favor larger US corporations and not US people (because that's what US "IP" laws do), but it wouldn't have been bad for the US economy.
    - jb775 6y ago
      The difference is that we buy all the crap they make, not the other way around. Not to mention we spend more on the military than China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia, France, Germany, United Kingdom, Japan, South Korea, and Brazil - combined[1]. That can be a very compelling negotiation tool. Also, I don't think globalization is a good thing. I agree it would be good for the US economy short term, but really would just lead to turning the world into the equivalent of this pic: https://www.alamy.com/stock-image-american-culture-fast-food-and-gas-stations-line-highway-167662964.html https://www.alamy.com/stock-image-american-culture-fast-food... [1] - https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison
- zalkota 6y ago
  Are you a Chinese propaganda bot?
- innagadadavida 6y ago
  Biden also called Xi a “thug” in the debates. This is definitely as strong a rhetoric as the current administration. However, like you mention, countries like India have a better response and more teeth than US.
phobosanomaly 6y ago
I think that people are nervous that legitimate complaints about China may be a subterfuge to start some sort of bizarre conflict so the President can use 'rally-round-the-flag' as a way to boost re-election prospects.
godelski 6y ago
While I agree that others should act, let's refrain from whataboutisms here. It is important to remember that, for the public, a lot of this has only come to light within the last year. And the public still believes the west needs China more than China needs the west. Plus there's the old Eddie Izzard joke.
- idrios 6y ago
  > let's refrain from whataboutisms here For economic sanctions to have their intended effect you need participation from a lot of countries so this doesn't feel appropriate to dismiss as a whataboutism
conception 6y ago
Regardless if you think Trump is actively or passively supporting Russia, leaving Russia to do as it will while stoking America vs China fires is a key pillar to Russian geopolitics. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) “China, which represents a danger to Russia, "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled”” Anything that hurts China and also the US while also ignoring Russia’s actions is, again knowingly or not, playing the exact hand they’d prefer the US to play.
NicoJuicy 6y ago
You could also say that eg. Germany is now tied between picking the most trustful partner and that the current us administration is at least "doubtful". While Chinese sanctions could be applied easier when partnerships are strong. It's hard to go "all-in" while the be administration is dropping a lot of agreements, just because they were made by the previous president. Countries like China and Russia are trying to make the most advantage now they can.
- medium_burrito 6y ago
  To be fair Germany seems hellbent on making itself completely dependent on an evil, totalitarian regime (Mother Russia), while neglecting its NATO obligations. I wouldn't say they are setting a great example.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
saeranv 6y ago
This is ludicrous interpretation. Here's Trump approving Uighur concentration camps during a private meeting with Xi: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53138833 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53138833
mywittyname 6y ago
>And wall street has already raised more money for democrats this past few months than republicans, because of the anti-China stance. That's not why and you (probably) know it. In the off chance you don't: anti-China sentiment is popular among both parties. Pelosi has been chastising Trump publicly for delaying Chinese sanctions. https://www.axios.com/pelosi-trump-china-uighur-sanctions-be5d142d-3ec3-4b6b-9bb5-a1a15b6a9d94.html https://www.axios.com/pelosi-trump-china-uighur-sanctions-be...

addicted 6y ago

This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China by dropping TPP. Everything they’ve done since then is a fraction of the massive gift they gave the Chinese. Heck, even the Chinese know what a joke this administration is which is why they basically captured Hong Kong, are trying to destroy Vietnam, extracting as much from Australia and India as they can in the past year while the going is good with the administration. Also, comparing to Germany, a country with a population less than 20% of the US’s which has basically no standing army by design, and hosts massive American bases within it is a complete non sequitur. Why don’t you compare to India, for example, which within weeks of a small border skirmish pretty much eliminated the entirety of Chinese digital companies from the country. Setting aside the wisdom of that decision, if you’re just comparing the actions taken by administrations, India has done far more in far less time that has been far more effective than throwing random tantrums after Xi refused to bribe your President enough.

animationwill 6y ago
> This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China by dropping TPP All major candidates of the 2016 election intended to end TPP, so it was dead either way. Only Obama sought to pursue it. To act like it wasn't dead is misinformation
- ciarannolan 6y ago
  This is very disingenuous. I went back and read Clinton's position, which was that the concept of the US pivoting to the Pacific Rim vis a vis trade was critical but that TPP lacked some additional measures she wanted (ex. stronger measures against currency manipulation). I don't think Trump ever articulated a cogent policy position on TPP at all. He did have plenty of his usual free association ranting, though, like: > "And the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership and fast track are a bad, bad deal for American businesses, for workers, for taxpayers. It’s a huge set of handouts for a few insiders that don’t even care about our great, great America."
  - animationwill 6y ago
    My statement was not disingenuous. She opposed it after they finalized the text, so it doesn't matter what she wished it had before it was finalized. It also matters when you're researching that you look at the date, because she was pro-TPP under Obama but anti-TPP as a candidate > Then, last fall, once the 12 participating nations announced they had finalized the text after years of negotiations, Clinton said she opposes it -- citing its lack of a crackdown on currency manipulation and provisions to extend pharmaceutical drug companies' patent protections in poorer countries. And in here words during a debate: > "I did say, when I was secretary of state, three years ago, that I hoped it would be the gold standard," Clinton said at an October debate with Sanders. "It was just finally negotiated last week, and in looking at it, it didn't meet my standards. My standards for more new, good jobs for Americans, for raising wages for Americans. And I want to make sure that I can look into the eyes of any middle-class American and say, 'This will help raise your wages.' And I concluded I could not." Source: https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/tpp-what-you-need-to-know/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/tpp-what-you-need-to...
jonathannat 6y ago
> This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China Companies are stepping over each other to move factories out of China. Just check chinalawblog. Any sane COO is de-risking right now. And what about Pompeo's speech? tariffs? banning wechat? supporting Taiwan? There's an endless list of this administration actions trying to curtail China. > dropping TPP. TPP was still an IF still when 2017 rolled around. > Chinese know what a joke this administration is which is why they basically captured Hong Kong, are trying to destroy Vietnam, extracting as much from Australia and India China is making stupid mistakes after mistakes. It managed to piss off almost every surrounding neighbors: South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, India, Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam, etc. It is basically at war with India right now. And US, Canada, UK, France, and some EU countries are in conflict with China as well. Just recently, even Germany, one of its last ally in Europe has condemned China publically for the czech republic situation China is so knee deep in trouble, with internal top leadership conflict, coronavirus, job losses, suffering trade, flooding, food shortage, that it has no choice but to establish internal "order" with inner Mongolia, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Tibet. But it is messing up there too. > Also, comparing to Germany, a country with a population less than 20% of the US That's just dishonest hand waving. Everyone knows Germany leads the EU. > Why don’t you compare to India China literally killed Indian soldiers - an act of war. There's no comparison here. And again, this is election year. This US administration cannot piss off every US companies by an absolute economic sanction on China.
- sgillen 6y ago
  Companies are moving their manufacturing out of China, they were before covid and it’s accelerating now. However companies are definitely going to want to sell the the gigantic and growing Chinese market, if they can. This is especially true the longer covid keeps western economies shit down.
  - jonathannat 6y ago
    > companies are definitely going to want to sell the the gigantic and growing Chinese market Tons of companies have had that same dream in the last 40 years, before China gets old in 2050, before China became nationalist in 2018. Companies like KFC, Amazon, Facebook, Google, Samsung, Nintendo, Home Depot, Mattel, Ebay.
xref 6y ago
The TPP was also a deeeeeee-saster, it amounted to a mega-corp giveaway and one of the most egregious things to the HN crowd at the time was imposing America’s draconian copyright laws on all signatory countries. Frankly I was surprised Obama wanted it as part of his legacy.
jb775 6y ago
> This administration messed up any opportunity to curtail China by dropping TPP Do you really think 5,600 pages of fresh red tape would have been beneficial long term for the US? The TPP was essentially locking the US into an agreement where a bunch of smaller countries could mooch off of the US economy of scale.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  The other countries in the negotiations have a similar population to the US (hell, just Japan, Mexico and Vietnam combined do). Having that many people prefer trade with the US, with a legal framework written by the US (instead of China) probably wouldn't have hurt the US. The treaty would have tended to favor larger US corporations and not US people (because that's what US "IP" laws do), but it wouldn't have been bad for the US economy.
  - jb775 6y ago
    The difference is that we buy all the crap they make, not the other way around. Not to mention we spend more on the military than China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia, France, Germany, United Kingdom, Japan, South Korea, and Brazil - combined[1]. That can be a very compelling negotiation tool. Also, I don't think globalization is a good thing. I agree it would be good for the US economy short term, but really would just lead to turning the world into the equivalent of this pic: https://www.alamy.com/stock-image-american-culture-fast-food-and-gas-stations-line-highway-167662964.html https://www.alamy.com/stock-image-american-culture-fast-food... [1] - https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison
zalkota 6y ago
Are you a Chinese propaganda bot?
innagadadavida 6y ago
Biden also called Xi a “thug” in the debates. This is definitely as strong a rhetoric as the current administration. However, like you mention, countries like India have a better response and more teeth than US.

phobosanomaly 6y ago

I think that people are nervous that legitimate complaints about China may be a subterfuge to start some sort of bizarre conflict so the President can use 'rally-round-the-flag' as a way to boost re-election prospects.

godelski 6y ago

While I agree that others should act, let's refrain from whataboutisms here. It is important to remember that, for the public, a lot of this has only come to light within the last year. And the public still believes the west needs China more than China needs the west. Plus there's the old Eddie Izzard joke.

idrios 6y ago
> let's refrain from whataboutisms here For economic sanctions to have their intended effect you need participation from a lot of countries so this doesn't feel appropriate to dismiss as a whataboutism

conception 6y ago

Regardless if you think Trump is actively or passively supporting Russia, leaving Russia to do as it will while stoking America vs China fires is a key pillar to Russian geopolitics. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) “China, which represents a danger to Russia, "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled”” Anything that hurts China and also the US while also ignoring Russia’s actions is, again knowingly or not, playing the exact hand they’d prefer the US to play.

NicoJuicy 6y ago

You could also say that eg. Germany is now tied between picking the most trustful partner and that the current us administration is at least "doubtful". While Chinese sanctions could be applied easier when partnerships are strong. It's hard to go "all-in" while the be administration is dropping a lot of agreements, just because they were made by the previous president. Countries like China and Russia are trying to make the most advantage now they can.

medium_burrito 6y ago
To be fair Germany seems hellbent on making itself completely dependent on an evil, totalitarian regime (Mother Russia), while neglecting its NATO obligations. I wouldn't say they are setting a great example.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

saeranv 6y ago

This is ludicrous interpretation. Here's Trump approving Uighur concentration camps during a private meeting with Xi: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53138833 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53138833

mywittyname 6y ago

>And wall street has already raised more money for democrats this past few months than republicans, because of the anti-China stance. That's not why and you (probably) know it. In the off chance you don't: anti-China sentiment is popular among both parties. Pelosi has been chastising Trump publicly for delaying Chinese sanctions. https://www.axios.com/pelosi-trump-china-uighur-sanctions-be5d142d-3ec3-4b6b-9bb5-a1a15b6a9d94.html https://www.axios.com/pelosi-trump-china-uighur-sanctions-be...