> Hobbes didn't say humankind was nasty and brutish, he said the life of man would be "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short" in the absence of a communit

> Hobbes didn't say humankind was nasty and brutish, he said the life of man would be "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short" in the absence of a communit I think you are misrepresenting Hobbes here. The essential idea of Hobbes' Leviathan was that men are selfish brutes/savages that require an overwhelming authority to pacify and tame. Hobbes' goal was to provide a justification for royalty. In other words, "community" cannot exist without a king because mankind is nasty and brutish.