8 ms·

> Maybe next Toyota will decide that they deserve a percentage of Uber’s revenue because Toyota's cars help facilitate Uber’s business? There are many car manu

by ecf 6y ago

> Maybe next Toyota will decide that they deserve a percentage of Uber’s revenue because Toyota's cars help facilitate Uber’s business? There are many car manufacturers that Uber could choose from in just the same way that there are many platforms that developers can develop for. Stop trying to spread the idea that the ability to make apps for the iPhone is an inalienable right.

paxys 6y ago
There aren't many platforms there are exactly two. And the costs of switching between them are significant enough that this argument holds less water by the day.
- jjcon 6y ago
  > there are exactly two If we are talking about platforms and not codebases there are waaay more than two. iOS (App store) Android (Google Play) FireOS (Amazon App Store) LineageOS (Fdroid) One UI (Galaxy Store) To name a few. These all have distinct and thriving marketplaces for apps with decent market share (some can overlap). The code base they use is irrelevant for this context.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
    How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices (however broadly construed)? I think the answer is two. Amazon has like 10% of the tablet market share, but the tablet market is like 1/20th the size of the phone market. Just to demonstrate that this is the variable that matters, consider the case where there are exactly three devices that have each of the other marketplaces installed on them, respectively. Would they present a meaningful competitive alternative to the big two?
    - Google234 6y ago
      Apple store is on like less than 10% of phones to be fair
    - jjcon 6y ago
      > How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices 4/5 in the examples I gave. Google, Apple, Samsung and Amazon all have decent market share.
      - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
        I am skeptical that Amazon has 1% market share. I found a datum that Samsung has like 25M MAU in the US, but I doubt that they do more than 1% of the total app transactions in the US. Maybe in Korea.
        jjcon 6y ago
        > there are exactly two (AppStores) > How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices (however broadly construed)? > I doubt that they do more than 1% of the total app transactions These goal posts keep moving
        asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
        True, I incorrectly identified the important metric in my comment. However, my mistake does not change which metric is important.
      - phaus 6y ago
        Samsung's market is installed on a substantial percentage of phones but almost no one on any of those devices uses anything besides the regular Google Play store. So while you technically answered his question in the larger conversation Samsung's app store isn't a competitive alternative. I couldn't find robust stats on Amazon's market share overall but I did find that they sold 5.3% of all tablets in Q3 2019. So if its true that the phone market is 20 times larger than that it would mean its unlikely that The Amazon App store is installed on 1% of all mobile devices.
        wruza 6y ago
        So users do use playstore in the presence of the other store. Doesn't that contradict the argument that they are poor non-tech walled-gardened who cannot choose? This entire farce is about developers who want to control platforms they do not own, on devices they do not own, with users who do not even want to deal with them under rules other than playstore ones.
  - pgt 6y ago
    I have never heard of the other three.
    - jjcon 6y ago
      You haven’t heard of Samsung or Amazon’s OSs?
  - mahkeiro 6y ago
    Your are not naming platform, you are naming alternate app store on Android... completely defeat your point.
    - jjcon 6y ago
      These are all distinct platforms - their code base is irrelevant in the context of marketplaces (as I already noted)
akira2501 6y ago
> Stop trying to spread the idea that the ability to make apps for the iPhone is an inalienable right. Yes, but neither should Apple have the right to prevent users from using alternative app stores and applications on their own iPhones.
- bananabreakfast 6y ago
  Why should they not have that right? Does Sony not have the right to prevent users from using alternative game stores to run unofficial games on their PS4? Does Nintendo not have the right to prevent users from using an alternative to the eShop to download games for their Switch? Does Tesla not have the right to prevent users from downloading and running whatever random applications they wish on their Tesla?
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > Why should they not have that right? Because the phone belongs to the consumer, and the courts have already said that it is perfectly legal to jailbreak your phone, even though apple attempted to sue people who were doing this. It is pretty horrible that Apple was trying to sue people, for modifying property that the consumer owned, and it required the courts to get involved, to clarify that it is perfectly legal to jail break your own property.
    - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
      All products even with ownership come with rules and regulations. Houses can’t be arbitrarily changed. Cars have governors. Scissors shouldn’t be run with. Ownership of an iPhone is not different. It just has special rules attached. If you don’t mind breaking the warranty, please jailbreak your iPhone and install whatever apps you’d prefer.
      - kalleboo 6y ago
        > Houses can’t be arbitrarily changed. Cars have governors. Scissors shouldn’t be run with. None of these regulations are decided by the company that manufactured the device, they are all decided democratically by an elected state. How about... Houses can't have arbitrary appliances installed that weren't made by someone approved by the house-builder Cars can't fill up gas from a stand not paying 30% by the car manufacturer Scissors can't cut paper sold by someone unaffiliated by the scissor manufacturer. Sounds reasonable to me! > If you don’t mind breaking the warranty, please jailbreak your iPhone and install whatever apps you’d prefer. No, Apple wanted jailbreaking to be "go to jail" illegal, not just voiding your warranty.
fomine3 6y ago
ok, the ability to make apps for the iPhone should be an inalienable right.
8note 6y ago
Code is copyrightable, so it's speech no? If I want to write code that can be run on an iPhone, I have an inalienable right to do so. I'd say you also have an inalienable right to repair and modify things that you own, and that includes running code on computers you own, like the iphone
kalleboo 6y ago
The iOS App Store has 70% of the mobile revenue share. Many developers can't afford to give up 70% of their potential revenue.

by ecf 6y ago

paxys 6y ago

There aren't many platforms there are exactly two. And the costs of switching between them are significant enough that this argument holds less water by the day.

jjcon 6y ago
> there are exactly two If we are talking about platforms and not codebases there are waaay more than two. iOS (App store) Android (Google Play) FireOS (Amazon App Store) LineageOS (Fdroid) One UI (Galaxy Store) To name a few. These all have distinct and thriving marketplaces for apps with decent market share (some can overlap). The code base they use is irrelevant for this context.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices (however broadly construed)? I think the answer is two. Amazon has like 10% of the tablet market share, but the tablet market is like 1/20th the size of the phone market. Just to demonstrate that this is the variable that matters, consider the case where there are exactly three devices that have each of the other marketplaces installed on them, respectively. Would they present a meaningful competitive alternative to the big two?
  - Google234 6y ago
    Apple store is on like less than 10% of phones to be fair
  - jjcon 6y ago
    > How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices 4/5 in the examples I gave. Google, Apple, Samsung and Amazon all have decent market share.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      I am skeptical that Amazon has 1% market share. I found a datum that Samsung has like 25M MAU in the US, but I doubt that they do more than 1% of the total app transactions in the US. Maybe in Korea.
      - jjcon 6y ago
        > there are exactly two (AppStores) > How many of those are installed on more than 1% of mobile devices (however broadly construed)? > I doubt that they do more than 1% of the total app transactions These goal posts keep moving
        asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
        True, I incorrectly identified the important metric in my comment. However, my mistake does not change which metric is important.
    - phaus 6y ago
      Samsung's market is installed on a substantial percentage of phones but almost no one on any of those devices uses anything besides the regular Google Play store. So while you technically answered his question in the larger conversation Samsung's app store isn't a competitive alternative. I couldn't find robust stats on Amazon's market share overall but I did find that they sold 5.3% of all tablets in Q3 2019. So if its true that the phone market is 20 times larger than that it would mean its unlikely that The Amazon App store is installed on 1% of all mobile devices.
      - wruza 6y ago
        So users do use playstore in the presence of the other store. Doesn't that contradict the argument that they are poor non-tech walled-gardened who cannot choose? This entire farce is about developers who want to control platforms they do not own, on devices they do not own, with users who do not even want to deal with them under rules other than playstore ones.
- pgt 6y ago
  I have never heard of the other three.
  - jjcon 6y ago
    You haven’t heard of Samsung or Amazon’s OSs?
- mahkeiro 6y ago
  Your are not naming platform, you are naming alternate app store on Android... completely defeat your point.
  - jjcon 6y ago
    These are all distinct platforms - their code base is irrelevant in the context of marketplaces (as I already noted)

akira2501 6y ago

> Stop trying to spread the idea that the ability to make apps for the iPhone is an inalienable right. Yes, but neither should Apple have the right to prevent users from using alternative app stores and applications on their own iPhones.

bananabreakfast 6y ago
Why should they not have that right? Does Sony not have the right to prevent users from using alternative game stores to run unofficial games on their PS4? Does Nintendo not have the right to prevent users from using an alternative to the eShop to download games for their Switch? Does Tesla not have the right to prevent users from downloading and running whatever random applications they wish on their Tesla?
- stale2002 6y ago
  > Why should they not have that right? Because the phone belongs to the consumer, and the courts have already said that it is perfectly legal to jailbreak your phone, even though apple attempted to sue people who were doing this. It is pretty horrible that Apple was trying to sue people, for modifying property that the consumer owned, and it required the courts to get involved, to clarify that it is perfectly legal to jail break your own property.
  - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
    All products even with ownership come with rules and regulations. Houses can’t be arbitrarily changed. Cars have governors. Scissors shouldn’t be run with. Ownership of an iPhone is not different. It just has special rules attached. If you don’t mind breaking the warranty, please jailbreak your iPhone and install whatever apps you’d prefer.
    - kalleboo 6y ago
      > Houses can’t be arbitrarily changed. Cars have governors. Scissors shouldn’t be run with. None of these regulations are decided by the company that manufactured the device, they are all decided democratically by an elected state. How about... Houses can't have arbitrary appliances installed that weren't made by someone approved by the house-builder Cars can't fill up gas from a stand not paying 30% by the car manufacturer Scissors can't cut paper sold by someone unaffiliated by the scissor manufacturer. Sounds reasonable to me! > If you don’t mind breaking the warranty, please jailbreak your iPhone and install whatever apps you’d prefer. No, Apple wanted jailbreaking to be "go to jail" illegal, not just voiding your warranty.

fomine3 6y ago

ok, the ability to make apps for the iPhone should be an inalienable right.

8note 6y ago

Code is copyrightable, so it's speech no? If I want to write code that can be run on an iPhone, I have an inalienable right to do so. I'd say you also have an inalienable right to repair and modify things that you own, and that includes running code on computers you own, like the iphone

kalleboo 6y ago

The iOS App Store has 70% of the mobile revenue share. Many developers can't afford to give up 70% of their potential revenue.