3 ms·

So this is a little indirect, but it does avoid the case where the Wayback machine goes down (or is subverted): include a HASHREF which is a hash of the state o

So this is a little indirect, but it does avoid the case where the Wayback machine goes down (or is subverted): include a HASHREF which is a hash of the state of the content when linked. Then you could find the resource using the content-addressable system of your choice. (Including, it must be said, the wayback machine itself).

ponker 6y ago
I've found that web pages have so much dynamic content these days that even something that feels relatively static generates two different hashes almost on every pageload.
- javajosh 6y ago
  Indeed. I don't think you could or should hash the DOM - not least of which because it is, in general, the structured output of a program. Ideally you could hash the source. This might be a huge problem for single page applications, except you can always pre-render a SPA at any given URL, which solves the problem. (This is done all the time - the most elegant way is to run e.g. React on the server to pre-render, but you can also use another templating system in an arbitrary language, although you end up doing all features maybe not twice, but about 1.5x).
a1369209993 6y ago
> (Including, it must be said, the wayback machine itself). Citation needed? Eg something like http://web.archive.org/cdx/search/cdx?url=http://haskell.cs.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/haskell-report-1.2.pdf http://web.archive.org/cdx/search/cdx?url=http://haskell.cs.... produces lines of the form: edu,yale,cs,haskell)/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/haskell-report-1.2.pdf 20170628055823 http://haskell.cs.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/haskell-report-1.2.pdf warc/revisit - WVI3426JEX42SRMSYNK74V2B7IEIYHAS 563 But there seems to be no documented way to turn WVI3426JEX42SRMSYNK74V2B7IEIYHAS (which I presume to be the hash) into a actual file. (Though http://web.archive.org/web/$DATEim_/$URL http://web.archive.org/web/$DATEim_/$URL works fine, so it hasn't been a problem in practice.)
- javajosh 6y ago
  > Citation needed Oh, sorry, I don't think the WM supports this today. I only meant that it could support it "trivially" (I put that in quotes since I don't know how WM is implemented. But in theory it would be easy to hash all their content and add an endpoint that maps from hashes to URLs). My point was that you could add an addressing system that is both independent of the Wayback Machine, but which you could still (theoretically) use with it. But you'd have to add the facility to the WM.
  - a1369209993 6y ago
    Ah, that's disappointing, but oh well.

ponker 6y ago

I've found that web pages have so much dynamic content these days that even something that feels relatively static generates two different hashes almost on every pageload.

javajosh 6y ago
Indeed. I don't think you could or should hash the DOM - not least of which because it is, in general, the structured output of a program. Ideally you could hash the source. This might be a huge problem for single page applications, except you can always pre-render a SPA at any given URL, which solves the problem. (This is done all the time - the most elegant way is to run e.g. React on the server to pre-render, but you can also use another templating system in an arbitrary language, although you end up doing all features maybe not twice, but about 1.5x).

a1369209993 6y ago

> (Including, it must be said, the wayback machine itself). Citation needed? Eg something like http://web.archive.org/cdx/search/cdx?url=http://haskell.cs.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/haskell-report-1.2.pdf http://web.archive.org/cdx/search/cdx?url=http://haskell.cs.... produces lines of the form: edu,yale,cs,haskell)/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/haskell-report-1.2.pdf 20170628055823 http://haskell.cs.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/haskell-report-1.2.pdf warc/revisit - WVI3426JEX42SRMSYNK74V2B7IEIYHAS 563 But there seems to be no documented way to turn WVI3426JEX42SRMSYNK74V2B7IEIYHAS (which I presume to be the hash) into a actual file. (Though http://web.archive.org/web/$DATEim_/$URL http://web.archive.org/web/$DATEim_/$URL works fine, so it hasn't been a problem in practice.)

javajosh 6y ago
> Citation needed Oh, sorry, I don't think the WM supports this today. I only meant that it could support it "trivially" (I put that in quotes since I don't know how WM is implemented. But in theory it would be easy to hash all their content and add an endpoint that maps from hashes to URLs). My point was that you could add an addressing system that is both independent of the Wayback Machine, but which you could still (theoretically) use with it. But you'd have to add the facility to the WM.
- a1369209993 6y ago
  Ah, that's disappointing, but oh well.