3 ms·

I disagree with your last bit. >'Given the extreme change we are going through, the “if you can’t handle it, don’t have kids argument” is just not realistic. A

I disagree with your last bit. >'Given the extreme change we are going through, the “if you can’t handle it, don’t have kids argument” is just not realistic. A pandemic isn’t “just how life goes”.' Maybe not a pandemic but it shouldn't be any shock that children make things much more complicated. It's, most of the time in the US today, a choice to have a child. The unexpected nature of a pandemic isn't really an excuse for me. One knows unexpected things happen with children, if you haven't prepared for those unplanned contingencies, that's on you as a parent. Should the same benefits be given to parents who maybe have to stay home more because they feel their kid a slightly larger burden than others? What if the child becomes autistic and you are required to spend more time with them? Any situation like this sucks but at what point should it really be a businesses problem and when shouldn't it be? I think these are really interesting problems under normal circumstances, the Covid part is just businesses having to deal with them all at the same time rather than individually on a case-by-case. To show that this isn't just Covid, let me share with you a story about a few nurses I met who have been exploiting a hospital system for personal gain (and brag about it!), something that could ruin a small business with relative ease. Big hospital near me has a policy of maternity leave for nursing staff, something like 6 months off, no questions asked whenever you have a child. Sounds fantastic on the surface. Well, this small pack of nurses all knowingly do the same thing, they have children as much as humanly possible, think on the order of 8-13 children. Because of their constant pregnancy and child birthing, they are effectively able to work only 6 months out of the year, 6 month vacations. Everyone else at this org, maximum time off in one stint is 3 weeks. This means, under this hospital's policy, the only way that I can take a month off is to either work at least 1 day each month. Say goodby to taking months of in winter to stay in warmer climate, say goodbye to benefits otherwise. These nurses though, who are easily able to save their salaries to cover their yearly costs, get all company benefits like healthcare. Is this 'fair'? As someone who isn't physically able to have children, I would argue no, it's not completely. This isn't to there should be nothing for these parents, I don't really know what the right answer is.

duderific 6y ago
> Maybe not a pandemic ... But, we are in a pandemic now. So the rest of your argument is moot. > One knows unexpected things happen with children, if you haven't prepared for those unplanned contingencies, that's on you as a parent. Sure, maybe a broken leg, or mono, or some other health issue could force the child to be home for a while. But not all schools close suddenly, and all other childcare options as well. What would planning for that look like exactly? > Well, this small pack of nurses all knowingly do the same thing, they have children as much as humanly possible, think on the order of 8-13 children ... able to work only 6 months out of the year, 6 month vacations As a father of two small children, I can confidently tell you that having a newborn is hardly a six month vacation.
- bluejellybean 6y ago
  >But, we are in a pandemic now. So the rest of your argument is moot. Firm disagreement, change the word pandemic with cancer diagnosis, it's the same problem from the parent point of view. My point is, when, exactly, should the company be going above and beyond for you if it isn't spelled out in your contract? > Sure, maybe a broken leg, or mono, or some other health issue could force the child to be home for a while. But not all schools close suddenly, and all other childcare options as well. What about summer, schools close for months at a time. I understand what you are saying though, for the record, I'm not saying this is an easy situation. The reality though, like all catastrophe, there is going to be a bit of chaos and headache finding methods to resume 'normal' life. > and all other childcare options as well. It's an absurd notion to say that _all_ other options closed, maybe businesses are but this isn't the only option. > What would planning for that look like exactly? With first hand experience, it's quite straightforward. Parent coordination work hours, family members take care watching the younger members, close friends/neighbors pick up slack from the line. I guarantee you that there is someone out their willing to watch your kids for a few hours a day if you look hard enough.
aftergibson 6y ago
> The unexpected nature of a pandemic isn't really an excuse for me. Companies, Governments, Healthcare System all failed to prepare for this pandemic but parents are expected to? Should they be considering breast-feeding during a nuclear winter before having children? What's a sufficient about of global life-altering change before they get the free pass?
- bluejellybean 6y ago
  >Companies, Governments, Healthcare System all failed to prepare for this pandemic but parents are expected to? Should they be considering breast-feeding during a nuclear winter before having children? And yet plenty of companies and healthcare organizations had prepared and are now doing fine. Nobody is asking anyone to consider every possible failure mode of society, that's absurd. It's not a crazy thing to plan for your kids in case something happens to you, as the parent. Having adequate finances in place to handle a year or two without income isn't some wild notion when we start discussing the well being of children, in my opinion. The idea is to be prepared in case something outside of your control prevents you from earning income. Heaven forbid on the ride to work you are struck by a drunk driver (or w/e uncontrolable accident) and are now stuck without the ability to work for the next two years. Having no plan for catastrophe when raising a child is simply poor judgement. > What's a sufficient about of global life-altering change before they get the free pass? Why should anyone get a free pass for their choices in life? Is it also the companies fault when the minimum wage they pay doesn't support a family of 6? What's a sufficient amount of servitude a company should pay to their employees past what is agreed upon in contract negotiations? Maybe someone else forgot that _shit happens_ and didn't prepare or negotiate well, sucks to suck. The parents have very simple options. Renegotiate or tell the company to pound sound and go somewhere that will play ball with your demands. The people I truly feel sorry for is the children, they get throw into a terrible deal through no fault of their own.

duderific 6y ago

> Maybe not a pandemic ... But, we are in a pandemic now. So the rest of your argument is moot. > One knows unexpected things happen with children, if you haven't prepared for those unplanned contingencies, that's on you as a parent. Sure, maybe a broken leg, or mono, or some other health issue could force the child to be home for a while. But not all schools close suddenly, and all other childcare options as well. What would planning for that look like exactly? > Well, this small pack of nurses all knowingly do the same thing, they have children as much as humanly possible, think on the order of 8-13 children ... able to work only 6 months out of the year, 6 month vacations As a father of two small children, I can confidently tell you that having a newborn is hardly a six month vacation.

bluejellybean 6y ago
>But, we are in a pandemic now. So the rest of your argument is moot. Firm disagreement, change the word pandemic with cancer diagnosis, it's the same problem from the parent point of view. My point is, when, exactly, should the company be going above and beyond for you if it isn't spelled out in your contract? > Sure, maybe a broken leg, or mono, or some other health issue could force the child to be home for a while. But not all schools close suddenly, and all other childcare options as well. What about summer, schools close for months at a time. I understand what you are saying though, for the record, I'm not saying this is an easy situation. The reality though, like all catastrophe, there is going to be a bit of chaos and headache finding methods to resume 'normal' life. > and all other childcare options as well. It's an absurd notion to say that _all_ other options closed, maybe businesses are but this isn't the only option. > What would planning for that look like exactly? With first hand experience, it's quite straightforward. Parent coordination work hours, family members take care watching the younger members, close friends/neighbors pick up slack from the line. I guarantee you that there is someone out their willing to watch your kids for a few hours a day if you look hard enough.

aftergibson 6y ago

> The unexpected nature of a pandemic isn't really an excuse for me. Companies, Governments, Healthcare System all failed to prepare for this pandemic but parents are expected to? Should they be considering breast-feeding during a nuclear winter before having children? What's a sufficient about of global life-altering change before they get the free pass?

bluejellybean 6y ago
>Companies, Governments, Healthcare System all failed to prepare for this pandemic but parents are expected to? Should they be considering breast-feeding during a nuclear winter before having children? And yet plenty of companies and healthcare organizations had prepared and are now doing fine. Nobody is asking anyone to consider every possible failure mode of society, that's absurd. It's not a crazy thing to plan for your kids in case something happens to you, as the parent. Having adequate finances in place to handle a year or two without income isn't some wild notion when we start discussing the well being of children, in my opinion. The idea is to be prepared in case something outside of your control prevents you from earning income. Heaven forbid on the ride to work you are struck by a drunk driver (or w/e uncontrolable accident) and are now stuck without the ability to work for the next two years. Having no plan for catastrophe when raising a child is simply poor judgement. > What's a sufficient about of global life-altering change before they get the free pass? Why should anyone get a free pass for their choices in life? Is it also the companies fault when the minimum wage they pay doesn't support a family of 6? What's a sufficient amount of servitude a company should pay to their employees past what is agreed upon in contract negotiations? Maybe someone else forgot that _shit happens_ and didn't prepare or negotiate well, sucks to suck. The parents have very simple options. Renegotiate or tell the company to pound sound and go somewhere that will play ball with your demands. The people I truly feel sorry for is the children, they get throw into a terrible deal through no fault of their own.