6 ms·

Only after having a kid did I fully realize just how much time and freedom I had.

by Reedx 6y ago

MacsHeadroom 6y ago
Freedom to go to bars (closed), clubs (closed), trips (not happening), concerts (canceled), conventions (postponed indefinitely), festivals (closed), etc... Most things childfree people get meaning out of are canceled until further notice. You still have your parenthood. What do we get? Extra work for equal pay? Great, that'll make the pandemic suck less.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  The freedom to just sit down and breath. I don't think you really grasp just how much having children robs you of your "self" and your down time. Heck, even the ability to go to the store to shop for food can be seriously impacted by having a child. Having a child doesn't just take away your ability to go out for a drink; it takes away EVERYTHING and replaces it with different things.
  - rdtwo 6y ago
    He won’t get it until/unless it happens to him. I was the same way once
    - pb7 6y ago
      Childless people don't feel bad for parents for the same reason they don't feel bad for startup founders that work 100 hour weeks. You're putting in the effort for 95% your own benefit (a child that grows up and keeps you company on Christmas in old age, or a big pay day from selling your company), and 5% societal benefit (children growing up and joining the workforce, or a company providing a valuable service and employment). At the end of the day, there will be enough people that pursue these things without any extra incentives so you don't get the pity as well. You can disagree and still see the argument as valid. I certainly won't give a shit if no one pities me for being a parent because the time and effort is mostly for me -- just like it is for everyone else.
      - seventhtiger 6y ago
        I'm childless but I disagree. Children are a public good (objectively) and a moral good (in many frameworks). The childless also benefit from children, as the very social order they exist in depends on raising children. They enjoy the public good with minimal contribution (additional tax). They take on very little of the real cost. If everyone was childless, applying Kant's categorical imperative, I think the societal issues would be obvious, as society would cease to exist within 90 years or less. If not everyone can be childless then morally some sufficient amount of people must have children. The fact that the parents do it for themselves doesn't reduce its importance or benefit to society. It's just a fortunate alignment of incentives. The problem I see is that further accommodating parents isn't enshrined in law. Parenting is essential work that is undervalued because it is passionate labor.
  - sellyme 6y ago
    > I don't think you really grasp just how much having children robs you of your "self" and your down time. Most adults without children grasp this perfectly fine, and it's one of the primary reasons why they have chosen not to have children.
- rdtwo 6y ago
  Idk man I’ve gone on trips this year and I have kids-! So you are limiting yourself too much. Seriously you don’t understand how much you can still do, ditch those self limiting beliefs and go do something different. Bike, boat, board, camp etc. Once you have kids it’s so much harder
- wrkronmiller 6y ago
  > Freedom to go to bars (closed), clubs (closed), trips (not happening), concerts (canceled), conventions (postponed indefinitely), festivals (closed), etc... I also love all of these things. I'm sorry you're bored. > Most things childfree people get meaning out of are canceled until further notice. Not really. Consider the following: - Athletics: running, hiking, boating, bicycling - Social Activity: responsible, socially-distant, get-togethers with your best friends - Engineering: personal electronics projects, programming projects, automotive projects - Entertainment: read a book, watch a movie, catch up on some TV edit: To be clear, I think a major problem with this discussion is how it's being framed as a zero-sum game: either parents work more or non-parents work more. I believe smarter companies and better bosses will try to keep pressure off their employees.
  - idrios 6y ago
    I think "bored" is a really unfair trivialization when the parent comment's choice of words was closer to "devoid of meaning". The examples you gave are the day to day things that childfree (& single) people are doing. None of those things involve meeting new people, which is exactly what is causing that emptiness. Trips, concerts, bars, etc are the kinds of special occasion that motivate the single person to make it through the week. I can continue running, continue having Zoom parties, continue programming for fun (when I'm not mentally burnt out from work), continue watching TV. But there's no discovery or excitement in this routine. It becomes meaningless
    - wrkronmiller 6y ago
      I don't have children (never want children) and wasn't trying to trivialize being bored. In fact, I found GP's situation to be quite relatable, and was relaying what I've been doing (or am planning to do) in lieu of going out. Perhaps I should have added something to this effect: there is meaning in personal enrichment. Now is a terrible time for meeting new people, but it's also an opportunity for self-improvement and for exploring new hobbies.
      - idrios 6y ago
- Romanulus 6y ago
  I would wager that you do not have children.
- wittyreference 6y ago
  Time to sit down and read a book for 30 minutes. I miss that.

Only after having a kid did I fully realize just how much time and freedom I had.

by Reedx 6y ago

Only after having a kid did I fully realize just how much time and freedom I had.

Freedom to go to bars (closed), clubs (closed), trips (not happening), concerts (canceled), conventions (postponed indefinitely), festivals (closed), etc... Most things childfree people get meaning out of are canceled until further notice. You still have your parenthood. What do we get? Extra work for equal pay? Great, that'll make the pandemic suck less.

RHSeeger 6y ago
The freedom to just sit down and breath. I don't think you really grasp just how much having children robs you of your "self" and your down time. Heck, even the ability to go to the store to shop for food can be seriously impacted by having a child. Having a child doesn't just take away your ability to go out for a drink; it takes away EVERYTHING and replaces it with different things.
- rdtwo 6y ago
  He won’t get it until/unless it happens to him. I was the same way once
  - pb7 6y ago
    Childless people don't feel bad for parents for the same reason they don't feel bad for startup founders that work 100 hour weeks. You're putting in the effort for 95% your own benefit (a child that grows up and keeps you company on Christmas in old age, or a big pay day from selling your company), and 5% societal benefit (children growing up and joining the workforce, or a company providing a valuable service and employment). At the end of the day, there will be enough people that pursue these things without any extra incentives so you don't get the pity as well. You can disagree and still see the argument as valid. I certainly won't give a shit if no one pities me for being a parent because the time and effort is mostly for me -- just like it is for everyone else.
    - seventhtiger 6y ago
      I'm childless but I disagree. Children are a public good (objectively) and a moral good (in many frameworks). The childless also benefit from children, as the very social order they exist in depends on raising children. They enjoy the public good with minimal contribution (additional tax). They take on very little of the real cost. If everyone was childless, applying Kant's categorical imperative, I think the societal issues would be obvious, as society would cease to exist within 90 years or less. If not everyone can be childless then morally some sufficient amount of people must have children. The fact that the parents do it for themselves doesn't reduce its importance or benefit to society. It's just a fortunate alignment of incentives. The problem I see is that further accommodating parents isn't enshrined in law. Parenting is essential work that is undervalued because it is passionate labor.
- sellyme 6y ago
  > I don't think you really grasp just how much having children robs you of your "self" and your down time. Most adults without children grasp this perfectly fine, and it's one of the primary reasons why they have chosen not to have children.
rdtwo 6y ago
Idk man I’ve gone on trips this year and I have kids-! So you are limiting yourself too much. Seriously you don’t understand how much you can still do, ditch those self limiting beliefs and go do something different. Bike, boat, board, camp etc. Once you have kids it’s so much harder
wrkronmiller 6y ago
> Freedom to go to bars (closed), clubs (closed), trips (not happening), concerts (canceled), conventions (postponed indefinitely), festivals (closed), etc... I also love all of these things. I'm sorry you're bored. > Most things childfree people get meaning out of are canceled until further notice. Not really. Consider the following: - Athletics: running, hiking, boating, bicycling - Social Activity: responsible, socially-distant, get-togethers with your best friends - Engineering: personal electronics projects, programming projects, automotive projects - Entertainment: read a book, watch a movie, catch up on some TV edit: To be clear, I think a major problem with this discussion is how it's being framed as a zero-sum game: either parents work more or non-parents work more. I believe smarter companies and better bosses will try to keep pressure off their employees.
- idrios 6y ago
  I think "bored" is a really unfair trivialization when the parent comment's choice of words was closer to "devoid of meaning". The examples you gave are the day to day things that childfree (& single) people are doing. None of those things involve meeting new people, which is exactly what is causing that emptiness. Trips, concerts, bars, etc are the kinds of special occasion that motivate the single person to make it through the week. I can continue running, continue having Zoom parties, continue programming for fun (when I'm not mentally burnt out from work), continue watching TV. But there's no discovery or excitement in this routine. It becomes meaningless
  - wrkronmiller 6y ago
    I don't have children (never want children) and wasn't trying to trivialize being bored. In fact, I found GP's situation to be quite relatable, and was relaying what I've been doing (or am planning to do) in lieu of going out. Perhaps I should have added something to this effect: there is meaning in personal enrichment. Now is a terrible time for meeting new people, but it's also an opportunity for self-improvement and for exploring new hobbies.
    - idrios 6y ago
Romanulus 6y ago
I would wager that you do not have children.
wittyreference 6y ago
Time to sit down and read a book for 30 minutes. I miss that.