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I sympathize with the parents but this is just how life goes. If you have kids, you’re going to be more occupied than people without kids since we all have limi

I sympathize with the parents but this is just how life goes. If you have kids, you’re going to be more occupied than people without kids since we all have limited time on this Earth. And of course your career will be negatively impacted. There are good things about having kids and bad things. This is one of those potential bad things. If you don’t want to deal with this possibility then simply don’t have kids.

alex_anglin 6y ago
How do you sympathize? Edit: For clarity, the comment is clearly unsympathetic.
- olliej 6y ago
  You can recognize when things will be harder for some people than it is for others, but at the same time acknowledge that these are simply the consequences of different choices being made. I have no doubt it is harder for my coworkers with kids now than it is usually, but I also know that they chose to have kids, and knew that would mean that they’d have more “work” in some cases than if they didn’t have kids. But they chose to have kids, and I’m getting tired of these threads where everyone with kids seems to be saying that kids a purely a burden to be put up with, which is honestly what these complaints about it “being a full time job” sound like.
  - goldenchrome 6y ago
    Yes this is what I meant, thanks for clarifying.
Ductapemaster 6y ago
I don’t have kids, but this strikes me as lacking empathy in the current climate. Choosing to have kids or not pre-COVID came with a set of expectations, risks, and choices that were fairly well defined. Parental leave, childcare, proximity to family and friends, school, increased costs, medical treatemtn, etc. Parents could evaluate those based on what their employer offered and the experiences of their peers going through the same processes. Now, with COVID, the entire world has changed. School is no longer school. Childcare doesn’t exist. Friends and family are socially distanced or inaccessible due to quarantine. Parks and beaches are closed. Vacations are extremely limited. Any social interaction has become a risk. None of these were risks that a reasonable parent would consider, and even for the paranoid ones, it is highly unlikely that anyone considered it all at once. Given the extreme change we are going through, the “if you can’t handle it, don’t have kids argument” is just not realistic. A pandemic isn’t “just how life goes”.
- goldenchrome 6y ago
  A pandemic is exactly how life goes. Barely more than one lifetime ago we had the Spanish Flu, WW1, WW2, multiple market crashes, and so on. Global warming is likely to cause more situations like those in the coming years. Much of this pandemic is overrated. My friends and family aren’t socially distanced. Parks and beaches are actually open. Vacations are very easy and very popular. Social interaction is not a risk for the vast majority of healthy people. If you’re scared of it, fine. Everyone in my life is not, and life is quite normal.
  - triceratops 6y ago
    > My friends and family aren’t socially distanced...Social interaction is not a risk for the vast majority of healthy people. Have you considered that this attitude might be the reason this pandemic has so affected the US in particular?
    - goldenchrome 6y ago
      I’ll care when we legislate against obesity, which causes far more deaths every single year. Until then, it’s just fear mongering.
      - triceratops 6y ago
        Obesity isn't a communicable disease. And has nothing to do with our current situation. Obesity isn't the reason I can't walk into a store without a mask. It's not the reason I haven't met my friends and family in months. Stop being obtuse. The only reason we're in the mess we are is the utter and complete mismanagement of our response. And our collective heads-in-the-sand attitude to the whole thing.
        goldenchrome 6y ago
        Obesity is the reason healthcare premiums are high though. I’d rather wear a mask than pay for obese people to get a quadruple bypass. Coronavirus isn’t the reason you haven’t met your friends and family in months. The disease isn’t violent enough to warrant that level of action. Everyone I know spent their Labor Day with their friends and families. That is your decision.
DoreenMichele 6y ago
If you don’t want to deal with this possibility then simply don’t have kids. This attitude -- which is pretty common in the US -- never fails to astound me. First, a lot of babies are not planned. Birth control failures happen or young people learn the hard way the facts of life because they fooled around ended up pregnant before they had a good idea of how things worked and some people are essentially brainwashed from birth into believing that using birth control will send them straight to hell. And sometimes people think "I will take my chances just this one time" and that one time turns out to be enough to result in pregnancy. That's without getting into the reality that a woman can end up pregnant as a consequence of rape. Second, if all people successfully take this advice and simply don't have kids, then there is no one to take care of us in our old age as our species dies out, having promoted the idea "You only live once and you should live for today and just indulge selfishly." Children are the social capital of the future. They are future workers and future tax payers and future caregivers that people who are currently hail and hardy will someday need -- unless you want to follow up this policy with "Let's just start executing people who fall ill with anything that could require long term convalescence and, also, start executing people when they hit a certain age so we don't have to deal with the frailty of old age." (No, I am not being extremist. I'm really not.)
- goldenchrome 6y ago
  My comment was directed at wealthy tech workers who have access to education, contraceptives, and abortions. Of course there are outliers but most of my coworkers carefully planned their pregnancy around their company’s promotion schedules. And I don’t think the human race is anything special and I’m more than happy to let it die off if we decide to stop having kids.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    I have six years of college and a Certificate in GIS. I was one of the top students in my graduating high school class and won a National Merit Scholarship. I also have a 33 year old son who is the result of failed birth control. I chose to not seek an abortion because I was already married to a man with whom I wanted kids, but I had originally intended to have them later. I will suggest that most of your coworkers discussing their "carefully planned pregnancies" are people willing to talk about their experiences and/or carefully framing their experiences in a socially acceptable manner. Most people who enjoy conventional success are either fortunate to have lives that fit a certain framework relatively easily or they get good at pretending to fit it and covering up or leaving out the things the people around them wouldn't be comfortable hearing. Basically, your position is one of "Everything needs to go right in your life all the time or a big fat fuck you from me." And that tends to cause the fabric of society to unravel because most people can't manage to force their life to go right every step of the way all the time. If their lives work, it's because they had some kind of safety net when things did go wrong at some point. If you are rich enough, you can sometimes pretend this is not the case, but the money itself is a kind of safety net, so it's a BS position for wealthy people to take.

alex_anglin 6y ago

How do you sympathize? Edit: For clarity, the comment is clearly unsympathetic.

olliej 6y ago
You can recognize when things will be harder for some people than it is for others, but at the same time acknowledge that these are simply the consequences of different choices being made. I have no doubt it is harder for my coworkers with kids now than it is usually, but I also know that they chose to have kids, and knew that would mean that they’d have more “work” in some cases than if they didn’t have kids. But they chose to have kids, and I’m getting tired of these threads where everyone with kids seems to be saying that kids a purely a burden to be put up with, which is honestly what these complaints about it “being a full time job” sound like.
- goldenchrome 6y ago
  Yes this is what I meant, thanks for clarifying.

Ductapemaster 6y ago

I don’t have kids, but this strikes me as lacking empathy in the current climate. Choosing to have kids or not pre-COVID came with a set of expectations, risks, and choices that were fairly well defined. Parental leave, childcare, proximity to family and friends, school, increased costs, medical treatemtn, etc. Parents could evaluate those based on what their employer offered and the experiences of their peers going through the same processes. Now, with COVID, the entire world has changed. School is no longer school. Childcare doesn’t exist. Friends and family are socially distanced or inaccessible due to quarantine. Parks and beaches are closed. Vacations are extremely limited. Any social interaction has become a risk. None of these were risks that a reasonable parent would consider, and even for the paranoid ones, it is highly unlikely that anyone considered it all at once. Given the extreme change we are going through, the “if you can’t handle it, don’t have kids argument” is just not realistic. A pandemic isn’t “just how life goes”.

goldenchrome 6y ago
A pandemic is exactly how life goes. Barely more than one lifetime ago we had the Spanish Flu, WW1, WW2, multiple market crashes, and so on. Global warming is likely to cause more situations like those in the coming years. Much of this pandemic is overrated. My friends and family aren’t socially distanced. Parks and beaches are actually open. Vacations are very easy and very popular. Social interaction is not a risk for the vast majority of healthy people. If you’re scared of it, fine. Everyone in my life is not, and life is quite normal.
- triceratops 6y ago
  > My friends and family aren’t socially distanced...Social interaction is not a risk for the vast majority of healthy people. Have you considered that this attitude might be the reason this pandemic has so affected the US in particular?
  - goldenchrome 6y ago
    I’ll care when we legislate against obesity, which causes far more deaths every single year. Until then, it’s just fear mongering.
    - triceratops 6y ago
      Obesity isn't a communicable disease. And has nothing to do with our current situation. Obesity isn't the reason I can't walk into a store without a mask. It's not the reason I haven't met my friends and family in months. Stop being obtuse. The only reason we're in the mess we are is the utter and complete mismanagement of our response. And our collective heads-in-the-sand attitude to the whole thing.
      - goldenchrome 6y ago
        Obesity is the reason healthcare premiums are high though. I’d rather wear a mask than pay for obese people to get a quadruple bypass. Coronavirus isn’t the reason you haven’t met your friends and family in months. The disease isn’t violent enough to warrant that level of action. Everyone I know spent their Labor Day with their friends and families. That is your decision.

DoreenMichele 6y ago

If you don’t want to deal with this possibility then simply don’t have kids. This attitude -- which is pretty common in the US -- never fails to astound me. First, a lot of babies are not planned. Birth control failures happen or young people learn the hard way the facts of life because they fooled around ended up pregnant before they had a good idea of how things worked and some people are essentially brainwashed from birth into believing that using birth control will send them straight to hell. And sometimes people think "I will take my chances just this one time" and that one time turns out to be enough to result in pregnancy. That's without getting into the reality that a woman can end up pregnant as a consequence of rape. Second, if all people successfully take this advice and simply don't have kids, then there is no one to take care of us in our old age as our species dies out, having promoted the idea "You only live once and you should live for today and just indulge selfishly." Children are the social capital of the future. They are future workers and future tax payers and future caregivers that people who are currently hail and hardy will someday need -- unless you want to follow up this policy with "Let's just start executing people who fall ill with anything that could require long term convalescence and, also, start executing people when they hit a certain age so we don't have to deal with the frailty of old age." (No, I am not being extremist. I'm really not.)

goldenchrome 6y ago
My comment was directed at wealthy tech workers who have access to education, contraceptives, and abortions. Of course there are outliers but most of my coworkers carefully planned their pregnancy around their company’s promotion schedules. And I don’t think the human race is anything special and I’m more than happy to let it die off if we decide to stop having kids.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  I have six years of college and a Certificate in GIS. I was one of the top students in my graduating high school class and won a National Merit Scholarship. I also have a 33 year old son who is the result of failed birth control. I chose to not seek an abortion because I was already married to a man with whom I wanted kids, but I had originally intended to have them later. I will suggest that most of your coworkers discussing their "carefully planned pregnancies" are people willing to talk about their experiences and/or carefully framing their experiences in a socially acceptable manner. Most people who enjoy conventional success are either fortunate to have lives that fit a certain framework relatively easily or they get good at pretending to fit it and covering up or leaving out the things the people around them wouldn't be comfortable hearing. Basically, your position is one of "Everything needs to go right in your life all the time or a big fat fuck you from me." And that tends to cause the fabric of society to unravel because most people can't manage to force their life to go right every step of the way all the time. If their lives work, it's because they had some kind of safety net when things did go wrong at some point. If you are rich enough, you can sometimes pretend this is not the case, but the money itself is a kind of safety net, so it's a BS position for wealthy people to take.