5 ms·

> Reciprocation, for what? For censoring their own citizen? It doesn't matter why they are banning every other means of communication. The fact is, they are ba

by creato 6y ago

> Reciprocation, for what? For censoring their own citizen? It doesn't matter why they are banning every other means of communication. The fact is, they are banned. It's not a matter of spite. In every other area of international relations, reciprocation is how things get done. You tariff me, I tariff you. You restrict visas for me, I restrict visas for you. It would suck for Chinese people overseas. That would be unfortunate. They should petition their government to unban a few means of communication!

FooBarWidget 6y ago
Your tit-for-tat comparison makes no sense. Censoring messages on Wechat does not affect US. You’re making up a non-existant attack from China against US. Your attitude is 100% spite, you're just rationalizing it.
- fsflover 6y ago
  > Censoring messages on Wechat does not affect US. It removes spying on US users.
  - FooBarWidget 6y ago
    If the ban is limited to the US only, and if they provide clear conditions on how to resolve this problem (such as pointing out which concrete US data laws are violated, and talking about clear steps towards resolving those violations) then you may have a point. But the ban is world wide. Even inside China. And there are no conditions, it's a ban that cannot be resolved. Claims of spying is just an excuse. They want to burn China's prosperity down to the ground.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- jariel 6y ago
  The CCP is absolutely censoring, monitoring and harvesting data from every app that is based and controlled from China, especially WeChat. That is publicly stated policy. There is no need for 'tit for tat' apps from China should be banned by every reasonable jurisdiction outside China for that reason alone. Without even getting complicated, just using EU GDPR as a basis for banning it would be just fine under already established legislation. We just went through the entire 20th century of trying to overcome such bad regimes, the only reason that China is able to get away with any of it is due to basic economic power i.e. trade interdependance. So it's time to reconsider and realign - too bad Trump pulled out of the TPP because that would have been a good first step.
  - FooBarWidget 6y ago
    Wechat should comply with local laws. I completely agree with that. But at the same time you're also saying that, regardless of law, the fact that the Chinese government can monitor the data, is justification for banning all Chinese apps. You're so proud of rule of law, but once it's about China you're throwing rule of law away, and the only reason is because you want to stick it to them? If you limit your statement to "it should be banned because it violates concrete laws" then I would agree. But "it should be banned because it's Chinese" is absurd and unfair. Look at the Tiktok ban: they accuse Tiktok of forwarding data to the CCP, yet no concrete evidence of such practice has ever been shown. Everything is based on the speculation that it could happen. Well, okay, we can solve that via a security audit, right? Audit all the infrastructure, all the firewall rules, all the communication channels, and exhaustively prove that privacy laws are being adhered to. But no, nobody's interested in such an investigation. Chinese apps are guilty until proven innocent, and nobody's interested in proof of innocence or proper due process. Is your belief in western values really that shallow?

by creato 6y ago

FooBarWidget 6y ago

Your tit-for-tat comparison makes no sense. Censoring messages on Wechat does not affect US. You’re making up a non-existant attack from China against US. Your attitude is 100% spite, you're just rationalizing it.

fsflover 6y ago
> Censoring messages on Wechat does not affect US. It removes spying on US users.
- FooBarWidget 6y ago
  If the ban is limited to the US only, and if they provide clear conditions on how to resolve this problem (such as pointing out which concrete US data laws are violated, and talking about clear steps towards resolving those violations) then you may have a point. But the ban is world wide. Even inside China. And there are no conditions, it's a ban that cannot be resolved. Claims of spying is just an excuse. They want to burn China's prosperity down to the ground.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
jariel 6y ago
The CCP is absolutely censoring, monitoring and harvesting data from every app that is based and controlled from China, especially WeChat. That is publicly stated policy. There is no need for 'tit for tat' apps from China should be banned by every reasonable jurisdiction outside China for that reason alone. Without even getting complicated, just using EU GDPR as a basis for banning it would be just fine under already established legislation. We just went through the entire 20th century of trying to overcome such bad regimes, the only reason that China is able to get away with any of it is due to basic economic power i.e. trade interdependance. So it's time to reconsider and realign - too bad Trump pulled out of the TPP because that would have been a good first step.
- FooBarWidget 6y ago
  Wechat should comply with local laws. I completely agree with that. But at the same time you're also saying that, regardless of law, the fact that the Chinese government can monitor the data, is justification for banning all Chinese apps. You're so proud of rule of law, but once it's about China you're throwing rule of law away, and the only reason is because you want to stick it to them? If you limit your statement to "it should be banned because it violates concrete laws" then I would agree. But "it should be banned because it's Chinese" is absurd and unfair. Look at the Tiktok ban: they accuse Tiktok of forwarding data to the CCP, yet no concrete evidence of such practice has ever been shown. Everything is based on the speculation that it could happen. Well, okay, we can solve that via a security audit, right? Audit all the infrastructure, all the firewall rules, all the communication channels, and exhaustively prove that privacy laws are being adhered to. But no, nobody's interested in such an investigation. Chinese apps are guilty until proven innocent, and nobody's interested in proof of innocence or proper due process. Is your belief in western values really that shallow?