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For the first rejection, they included a screenshot of the app's search functionality, searching for the term "Covid", which obviously contains HN submissions w

For the first rejection, they included a screenshot of the app's search functionality, searching for the term "Covid", which obviously contains HN submissions with "Covid" in the titles. So basically, they were asking you to censor with regards to a specific topic? For the second rejection, they included a screenshot of the app's main "Top Stories" view, which happened to have a COVID-19-related submission [3] as one of the top stories. So they were asking you to censor/distort the top stories of the HN site? We need to escalate these shenanigans in the tech media! EDIT: Who in the independent media covers stuff like this? Snazzy Labs? Louis Rossman would likely rant about this, but his beat is more hardware.

crististm 6y ago
I guess there is a market for walled garden apps and hardware. I'm not in it. It makes sense that media in its aggregation will probably have a better view of a what a walled garden should provide. But if I were the gardener I would not bend my operations to any third party that happen to have a loud voice when I have a business to run and some private reasons to do it my way.
mrtksn 6y ago
More like the reviewer not understanding how HN works and rejecting just to be safe. If the developer explain it nicely will probably get the app approved as it is a “reader” app, therefore exempt from some restrictions. The nice thing about human powered review process is that you can actually reason with them even if they make mistakes. I am huge believer in the benefits of having humans instead of algos to deal with. People on Youtube have their videos removed or demonetized left and right by algorithms that you can’t really do anything about.
- liability 6y ago
  If they don't understand how the app works then they have no business reviewing it. Apple is not qualified to run a walled garden.
  - mrtksn 6y ago
    Apple is a fruit, also a company. Both can’t understand how apps work. The company one happens to employ people who can try to do that but not all people are familiar with all websites. It’s therefore developers responsibility to explain it to help the partnership work. It’s unreasonable to expect that the reviewers be all knowing geniuses that make no mistakes. Simply work with them, it’s how business work. Publishing apps is not simply about writing code. You can write a code, share the code but you are not entitled to have other people distribute your code. What you can have is a business deal with others, in this case Apple, to distribute your code and you will have to work with them to make it happen.
    - upbeat_general 6y ago
      There’s no requirement to be a genius here. A cursory look at the app would tell you it’s a reader style app similar to reddit, Twitter, etc. You don’t need to know anything about hacker news but the octal description clearly describes the functionality, and any App Store reviewer should definitely understand the concept of reader style apps as they are quite numerous. That’s a pretty low bar.
      - mrtksn 6y ago
        A cursory look at the AppStore would tell you the reader style apps similar to reddit, Twitter, etc. are not banned. In fact, there are already multiple HN readers in the AppStore, including OP's app. Obviously the situation is not caused by Apple's policy but an individual reviewer. Mistakes happen and they are fixable when people are involved.
- stcredzero 6y ago
  If the developer explain it nicely will probably get the app approved as it is a “reader” app, therefore exempt from some restrictions. So the corporate policy is that they'll reject, with a low level of comprehension, and if the developers don't bother to explain, too bad. From the POV of the reviewer, they benefit from greater throughput, so just low-comprehension reject, and deal with the clarification. Apple thinks of itself as some kind of advanced, disruptive, with-it company. The way it acts, is sometimes more like an atherosclerotic bureaucracy.
  - mrtksn 6y ago
    I don’t know if that’s the policy or the reviewer simply screwed up but if the developer doesn’t bother to explain, yeah, too bad. Let’s not pretend that explaining what your app does is a huge burden that only few can overcome. You sign a business deal with Apple to distribute your app, you are expected to do your part. If you think that this is something you rather don’t do, then don’t work with Apple. I don’t think that having to explain how your app works is a unfair burden in the business.
    - stcredzero 6y ago
      Let’s not pretend that explaining what your app does is a huge burden that only few can overcome. Let's not pretend that convenient nonsensical seeming rejections, which contradict common sense, and seem to imply a hostile demand of censorship are really an acceptable way of communicating in business.
- traib 6y ago
  Let me quote a few things from Octal's App Store page [1] (emphasis mine): > Octal is a modern, full-featured Hacker News (news.ycombinator.com) client ... > • Read and share Hacker News stories ... > • Upvote stories and comments you like ... > • Submit new posts to Hacker News ... > • Log in to Hacker News ... etc. > About Hacker News: > Hacker News is a social news website focusing on computer science and entrepreneurship. It is run by Paul Graham's investment fund and startup incubator, Y Combinator. In general, its content can be submitted is defined as "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity". On the one hand Apple is selling the dream of a privacy and security focused utopia, where all apps are well-curated and malware does not exist. And demanding a 30% cut of revenue from many apps in the process. Then on the other hand presumably two of their reviewers could not be bothered to read the app description or do a few minutes of independent research to figure out what Octal and Hacker News really is. It's hard to see what value Apple is providing in this case. [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/octal-hacker-news/id1308885491 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/octal-hacker-news/id1308885491

crististm 6y ago

I guess there is a market for walled garden apps and hardware. I'm not in it. It makes sense that media in its aggregation will probably have a better view of a what a walled garden should provide. But if I were the gardener I would not bend my operations to any third party that happen to have a loud voice when I have a business to run and some private reasons to do it my way.

mrtksn 6y ago

More like the reviewer not understanding how HN works and rejecting just to be safe. If the developer explain it nicely will probably get the app approved as it is a “reader” app, therefore exempt from some restrictions. The nice thing about human powered review process is that you can actually reason with them even if they make mistakes. I am huge believer in the benefits of having humans instead of algos to deal with. People on Youtube have their videos removed or demonetized left and right by algorithms that you can’t really do anything about.

liability 6y ago
If they don't understand how the app works then they have no business reviewing it. Apple is not qualified to run a walled garden.
- mrtksn 6y ago
  Apple is a fruit, also a company. Both can’t understand how apps work. The company one happens to employ people who can try to do that but not all people are familiar with all websites. It’s therefore developers responsibility to explain it to help the partnership work. It’s unreasonable to expect that the reviewers be all knowing geniuses that make no mistakes. Simply work with them, it’s how business work. Publishing apps is not simply about writing code. You can write a code, share the code but you are not entitled to have other people distribute your code. What you can have is a business deal with others, in this case Apple, to distribute your code and you will have to work with them to make it happen.
  - upbeat_general 6y ago
    There’s no requirement to be a genius here. A cursory look at the app would tell you it’s a reader style app similar to reddit, Twitter, etc. You don’t need to know anything about hacker news but the octal description clearly describes the functionality, and any App Store reviewer should definitely understand the concept of reader style apps as they are quite numerous. That’s a pretty low bar.
    - mrtksn 6y ago
      A cursory look at the AppStore would tell you the reader style apps similar to reddit, Twitter, etc. are not banned. In fact, there are already multiple HN readers in the AppStore, including OP's app. Obviously the situation is not caused by Apple's policy but an individual reviewer. Mistakes happen and they are fixable when people are involved.
stcredzero 6y ago
If the developer explain it nicely will probably get the app approved as it is a “reader” app, therefore exempt from some restrictions. So the corporate policy is that they'll reject, with a low level of comprehension, and if the developers don't bother to explain, too bad. From the POV of the reviewer, they benefit from greater throughput, so just low-comprehension reject, and deal with the clarification. Apple thinks of itself as some kind of advanced, disruptive, with-it company. The way it acts, is sometimes more like an atherosclerotic bureaucracy.
- mrtksn 6y ago
  I don’t know if that’s the policy or the reviewer simply screwed up but if the developer doesn’t bother to explain, yeah, too bad. Let’s not pretend that explaining what your app does is a huge burden that only few can overcome. You sign a business deal with Apple to distribute your app, you are expected to do your part. If you think that this is something you rather don’t do, then don’t work with Apple. I don’t think that having to explain how your app works is a unfair burden in the business.
  - stcredzero 6y ago
    Let’s not pretend that explaining what your app does is a huge burden that only few can overcome. Let's not pretend that convenient nonsensical seeming rejections, which contradict common sense, and seem to imply a hostile demand of censorship are really an acceptable way of communicating in business.
traib 6y ago
Let me quote a few things from Octal's App Store page [1] (emphasis mine): > Octal is a modern, full-featured Hacker News (news.ycombinator.com) client ... > • Read and share Hacker News stories ... > • Upvote stories and comments you like ... > • Submit new posts to Hacker News ... > • Log in to Hacker News ... etc. > About Hacker News: > Hacker News is a social news website focusing on computer science and entrepreneurship. It is run by Paul Graham's investment fund and startup incubator, Y Combinator. In general, its content can be submitted is defined as "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity". On the one hand Apple is selling the dream of a privacy and security focused utopia, where all apps are well-curated and malware does not exist. And demanding a 30% cut of revenue from many apps in the process. Then on the other hand presumably two of their reviewers could not be bothered to read the app description or do a few minutes of independent research to figure out what Octal and Hacker News really is. It's hard to see what value Apple is providing in this case. [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/octal-hacker-news/id1308885491 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/octal-hacker-news/id1308885491