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Ask HN: Advice on the next move

8 points by naifwonder 16y ago

The site: http://vepler.com/access.php?c=yc I had submitted my startup into the YCombinator summer program, but did not make the cut. However, I do not want that to be the end of the story. The site is similar to other sites such as Chatterous or Facebook's new messaging platform, but provides a structure and functionality that is optimal for many niches (such as people looking to collect feedback or online gamers). This is sort of what you would get if you combined Meebo, Facebook's new messaging system, Chatterous, and Google Voice's texting. (Before reading the rest of this post, it would be best to visit the site) The challenge with this startup is getting things worked out with the phone companies or sms aggregators to be able to send the text messages. Companies such as Yahoo and AOL have been providing free texting for a while, so I know that it is economically feasible. Getting that connection is the primary thing holding me back from fully launching the site. I do not have access to a large scale texting system (short codes) so I am restricted to keeping the site in a closed beta (Hence the long url. The link will only work for the first few hundred people). Since I am using a text messaging system not built for high volume messaging, the site's messaging is not as scalable/stable as it needs to be for a full-scale launch (The site itself is scalable, just not the SMS API since it is not using short codes). I am primarily looking for feedback on what my next move should be (who I should talk to, how I should present it, etc). I am an individual founder (I built Vepler on my own), but I am open to taking on a partner if they can advance the process of getting access to short code messaging; Short codes are expensive enough that I cannot afford them on my own. I am finishing up my undergrad in applied mathematics and statistics soon and have some good jobs lined up. However, Vepler is my first choice for what I want to do.

martey 16y ago
From your comment, it looks like you think your primary goal is to find enough funds to get a short code. Couldn't you charge users a small subscription fee, either on a monthly or per-message basis, in order to get enough money to pay for a short code?
- naifwonder 16y ago
  That is definitely an option, but not the most preferable. Seeing other companies provide free text messaging demonstrates that it is possible to do so without a subscription fee. I just want to explore all the avenues to be able to do something similar before resorting to charging for the service. Either way, short codes are still expensive and need to be paid for in advance. Companies that allow others to use already acquired short codes through an API charge relatively high per-message costs. Hence, I will still need capital.
  - follower 16y ago
    > Seeing other companies provide free text messaging demonstrates that it is possible to do so without a subscription fee. Well, do you know that's actually sustainable for them to do that though?
    - naifwonder 16y ago
      To be fair, I don't have access to raw data so I cannot make a fully informed decision on the matter. However, given that Yahoo and AOL have been providing the service for a long time, I doubt they would have been doing so if it were not sustainable. Even large companies like that have financial limits. Google Voice not only provides free texting, they also give each user their own phone number. Granted they are planning on charging for calls soon (from what I've heard), I will not have as high costs as them since I am only providing texting and don't need millions of phone numbers.
fleitz 16y ago
Start charging money. If you're providing a valuable service people will pay for the 1 cent it costs to send a text message. If you're not then how does knocking 1 cent off the price of a text message make the business feasible? The primary thing holding your startup back is your lack of commitment, and the expectation that others take risks you are not willing to take. You're a student you have access to credit, get a VISA and put the text messaging bill on your VISA. The reason why you don't do this is because you know that more users will mean a bigger bill. Whereas if you had a business more users would mean more profit. Why not make it work with twitter and just have the users enable text messaging? What is so essential about texting that makes or breaks the business yet is unimportant enough to your customers that they won't pay for it?
- naifwonder 16y ago
  Please note that what I am about to say is not meant to be defensive. Rather, it is a list of facts. It's not about me WILLING to take the risk, its about me actually being ABLE to take the risk. The short codes themselves cost upwards of $1000 (I need multiple) per month. A high frequency of messages can surge that cost much higher. Being a student, my credit limit will not be very high. With more capital, it is possible to buy messages in bulk or go into unlimited messaging plans that are much more economically feasible when scaling; That way, more users are sustainable. A high cost is fine as long as the cost to user ratio makes sense. With more starting capital, the cost to user ratio is greatly reduced. If any company with an existing ability to send text messages at sustainable rates wants to work with Vepler, that is something that would be equally valuable to me as raw capital. I can come up with the funds for the servers and such on my own if necessary. Getting in touch with such companies is the tricky part. As for the matter of charging for the service: As I said, I am open to it. However, I want to explore all options before going there. Having the site work through twitter involves an added layer of complexity to the site that might simply be beyond the scope of many people. Texting is a core feature of the site. I can launch it without it and I'm sure some people will still find it very useful. I just want to find out if I can avoid doing that, especially since texting makes the site so much more useful. Also, the 2 job offers I have pay fairly well. Enough so that I can afford to pay for the site myself after a few months. However, I would not mind giving up an equity stake to an investor to accelerate the process and potentially have more resources available (investors often provide value through their connections and knowledge that exceeds that of their capital).
livecrossing 16y ago
Please reach out to me, bmurphy@LiveCrossing.com, I may be able to assist.

8 points by naifwonder 16y ago

martey 16y ago

From your comment, it looks like you think your primary goal is to find enough funds to get a short code. Couldn't you charge users a small subscription fee, either on a monthly or per-message basis, in order to get enough money to pay for a short code?

naifwonder 16y ago
That is definitely an option, but not the most preferable. Seeing other companies provide free text messaging demonstrates that it is possible to do so without a subscription fee. I just want to explore all the avenues to be able to do something similar before resorting to charging for the service. Either way, short codes are still expensive and need to be paid for in advance. Companies that allow others to use already acquired short codes through an API charge relatively high per-message costs. Hence, I will still need capital.
- follower 16y ago
  > Seeing other companies provide free text messaging demonstrates that it is possible to do so without a subscription fee. Well, do you know that's actually sustainable for them to do that though?
  - naifwonder 16y ago
    To be fair, I don't have access to raw data so I cannot make a fully informed decision on the matter. However, given that Yahoo and AOL have been providing the service for a long time, I doubt they would have been doing so if it were not sustainable. Even large companies like that have financial limits. Google Voice not only provides free texting, they also give each user their own phone number. Granted they are planning on charging for calls soon (from what I've heard), I will not have as high costs as them since I am only providing texting and don't need millions of phone numbers.

fleitz 16y ago

Start charging money. If you're providing a valuable service people will pay for the 1 cent it costs to send a text message. If you're not then how does knocking 1 cent off the price of a text message make the business feasible? The primary thing holding your startup back is your lack of commitment, and the expectation that others take risks you are not willing to take. You're a student you have access to credit, get a VISA and put the text messaging bill on your VISA. The reason why you don't do this is because you know that more users will mean a bigger bill. Whereas if you had a business more users would mean more profit. Why not make it work with twitter and just have the users enable text messaging? What is so essential about texting that makes or breaks the business yet is unimportant enough to your customers that they won't pay for it?

naifwonder 16y ago
Please note that what I am about to say is not meant to be defensive. Rather, it is a list of facts. It's not about me WILLING to take the risk, its about me actually being ABLE to take the risk. The short codes themselves cost upwards of $1000 (I need multiple) per month. A high frequency of messages can surge that cost much higher. Being a student, my credit limit will not be very high. With more capital, it is possible to buy messages in bulk or go into unlimited messaging plans that are much more economically feasible when scaling; That way, more users are sustainable. A high cost is fine as long as the cost to user ratio makes sense. With more starting capital, the cost to user ratio is greatly reduced. If any company with an existing ability to send text messages at sustainable rates wants to work with Vepler, that is something that would be equally valuable to me as raw capital. I can come up with the funds for the servers and such on my own if necessary. Getting in touch with such companies is the tricky part. As for the matter of charging for the service: As I said, I am open to it. However, I want to explore all options before going there. Having the site work through twitter involves an added layer of complexity to the site that might simply be beyond the scope of many people. Texting is a core feature of the site. I can launch it without it and I'm sure some people will still find it very useful. I just want to find out if I can avoid doing that, especially since texting makes the site so much more useful. Also, the 2 job offers I have pay fairly well. Enough so that I can afford to pay for the site myself after a few months. However, I would not mind giving up an equity stake to an investor to accelerate the process and potentially have more resources available (investors often provide value through their connections and knowledge that exceeds that of their capital).

livecrossing 16y ago

Please reach out to me, bmurphy@LiveCrossing.com, I may be able to assist.